Ms Marian Hennessy:

I thank Deputy Canney for his question. I agree with the Deputy on his first point about the supports and resources for teachers to help them to have a better understanding on integration. The day-to-day life of a teacher in school who is working with 25, 29 or 30 students in a class, one or two of whom possibly have learning difficulties or other issues, is challenging. Such teachers have a piece of work to do. They have a curriculum to teach. They have deadlines to meet. Where we can, we should support them by offering them alternative learning methods and resources, and possibly having people with various different abilities coming in and talking to them during training sessions to give them an insight into what works best. I have great respect for the work teachers do. They set out the foundations for their pupils' experiences in life in future. I would like to see as much support as possible for teachers in that way.

The Deputy's second comment was about the fear he feels employers have. He really nailed it when he spoke about how employers feel, for example with regard to how it will affect everybody else if they bring a person with a disability into the workplace. That is where we need to stop and think. Why should there be a big deal about it? Why should there be fear? Everybody is equal. Just because you have a physical disability, a hearing impairment or a visual impairment, why should it be such a big deal?

Every day I come across this with employers. Years ago, you would get an excuse around health and safety. This would be the first barrier that would be put up when you would ask about a job for somebody. Why is there fear? Why are we so afraid of disability? What is so different about this cohort of people from us? Why is it a difference? Why is it a distinction? That is where the nub of the problem is. Maybe this is where, through information and education sessions, there can be assistance. The feedback I get from employers when our Ability Board speaks on our disability awareness training involves them asking what the big deal is. Mr. Kelly nailed it earlier this morning in what he was saying.

There are certain people, particularly people in HR in their 40s, 50s and 60s, who can possibly go through their life, career and college life without coming into contact with a person with a disability. They have said it to me. It is a different experience now with young people. Fear comes into play if people are not exposed to disability and have no experience of it. That is why people, such as Mr. Kelly, need to be talking to employers to change those mindsets and stereotypes, and to look at those blocks.

Deputy Canney mentioned the data baseline. It is probably difficult to get those figures because we are then into the area of disclosure. Many people have fought hard to get where they are and when they go into a job, they may not want to disclose to their employer that they have a disability. That is very much a personal choice. The Deputy is correct that there can be an awful lot of tokenism around giving a person a job. Particularly in some companies, it is a case of ticking off the box for their corporate social responsibility or their quota figures. That is an issue. We weed those employers out because if people are coming from that perspective when they are employing somebody, it will not work out and it will not be worthwhile.

What we need to do is get the message out there that there is no difference. Everybody should be and is equal. I accept we might need something a little bit different. I am sure I learn differently from the Deputy. I am a visual person and I have to write down and use lists, and for somebody else it would be different. We need to get that message out there to companies.

There is a business case here to be made to companies. There is significant spending power among the number of people with disabilities in Ireland. As someone previously mentioned, one in four of us will end up with a disability in our lifetime. We certainly will all come into contact with somebody in our families with a disability throughout our lifetime.

We need to change. We need to get serious about this. I am 30 years in this business and I have yet to see a proper commitment through employment to include everybody. I would like if this committee could do that.