Ms Oonagh Duggan:

I thank the Chairman. I want to follow up on the engagement question. It is kind of reinforcing what Mr. Kelly said about the Burren. The European Innovation Partnership element of the CAP in Pillar 2 and the co-operative projects rely on farm advisers and ecological advisers going out on the ground. It is very bespoke. They are powerful tools to work with farmers on the ground and that is where you get the engagement. However, from looking at the sums, there is only about €200 million in that pot. That is not enough. We need a lot more money. If we are serious about engagement, we need a lot more funding out there to talk to farmers about what needs to be done. I was born and raised on a dairy farm in County Limerick. I was trying to think of what my dad would say now about what is happening with dairy farming and the need to change. All I could think of is he would need very bespoke advice on what would suit his circumstances to bring down emissions, work with biodiversity on the farm and look at water quality. That is what is needed and there is not enough of that in this CAP.

This might be a controversial topic but about 73% of the CAP budget is unattached to outcomes. Look at the basic payment. There is the 25% going to eco-schemes but we are not sure how much that is going to be effective for results. A substantial portion of that CAP funding is not given to ecosystem services. It is about paying farmers the direct payment to adhere to the law, so it is not all about providing services. The main area we get bang for that buck is the advice on water and climate through Pillar 2, but that budget is tiny. It is only €1.5 billion. The eco-scheme is €1.4 billion. They are very close but the targeted outcomes will come in Pillar 2 whereas we believe they will not in Pillar 1. Hedgerows Ireland and colleagues who were here earlier would say there is no focus on improvement of hedgerows in the eco-scheme, so we are going to be paying for the status quo. That status quohas allowed the removal of hedgerows in GAEC 8 and GAEC 7 currently. Monaghan County Council can say only 12% of its hedgerows are in good condition at the moment. We need to be paying and building up that big pot of funding in Pillar 2 to support farmers.