Louise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

I was privileged to speak at a conference where I heard from stakeholders from New Zealand. They said that the practical impact is in place and being able to take time off is in place. In surveys there, people reported back that they felt like their employers understood and that they did not have to go and bare their souls after having suffered a trauma. They felt they had that right and that it was given to them as one adult to another. It was not questioned in the way some might have envisaged it. As well as that, they pointed to the extent to which a national conversation started.

It is not just the legislation, which is important and we agree that it is necessary but it is not just that. It is the posters that tell people there is a new form of leave. When changes are made to the Organisation of Working Time Act 1997 or to other forms of leave a publicity campaign generally goes with that to tell people that their rights in work have changed. That sparks a conversation at the level of the workplace which could not even be quantified other than to say it has value beyond measure. That means people are talking so that instead of the victim and survivor being somebody in the workplace who is marginalised, she – it is not only a female but it very often is – is then brought into that conversation because people are talking about the new form of leave. Awareness goes up and along with awareness of the leave the awareness of domestic abuse goes up. They found that was the value.

In practice there is a lot of trust involved in this and there has to be because we are dealing with people who have suffered trauma. When it is questioned whether somebody might take advantage of this leave when he or she did not need it, I would usually respond by asking someone if he or she would take leave he or she was not entitled to. I would not and I will answer for Deputy Cairns because I know she would not either. Deputy Murnane O’Connor or Senator McGreehan would not do so either, nor would the Chair. Who are these people who will take advantage? This is a specific form of leave and an awareness campaign will nearly police itself. We cannot retraumatise people by making them tell a story that is personal and that is the cause of trauma in their lives. I 100% accept that there is an element of trust involved but I have that cheeky response when people ask, which is always to put the question I referred to earlier. I will not say exactly what I would say but the Deputy can imagine the language I would use. I would ask people if they would take advantage of this leave if they did not need it. The universal answer from my experience is always “No.” I know every member of the committee and in this room agree with me so who are these people? I do not believe that leave of this nature would be abused. However, I am not naïve enough to believe it could not be abused so there is a mechanism in place, in the way there is for a person who might try to take parental leave when he or she does not have an entitlement to it.

There is a mechanism there for an employer to go to a third party. There is also a mechanism there for a worker to go to a third party should he or she need it. We know from the Workplace Relations Commission, WRC, following the Zalewski judgment, that all of these hearings have to take place in public. That is the default. I would say that there is a compelling case for these hearings to take place not only in private, but quickly. Again, that involves resourcing the WRC, although I know that I am straying into another area here. However, there is sufficient reason within the legislation for employers to be relaxed. We only have to look at Danske Bank, Vodafone and other employers in other jurisdictions that are moving ahead with this anyway, as well as in a positive way. They are giving positive feedback. As well as that, we know that the National Competitiveness and Productivity Council, NCPC, has said repeatedly that there will be issues around attracting talent to a workplace. Having a decent set of terms and conditions for the people one is hoping to attract is a good place to start. Many employers are now waking up to this fact.