Professor John Sweeney:

The Deputy is slightly misrepresenting our view of the council. We have the highest respect for the council, which is composed of highly-qualified, really good individuals who have been given a very difficult task to perform and have done the best job possible. We would see some areas where there is room for improvement but that is not, in any way, to characterise the council members as wimps.

They have done a splendid job within the remit they have been given of producing carbon budgets. If we want to go looking for wimps, we need to look elsewhere, such as at the decisions that have not been taken in the past 20 years; the promises that have been broken and the political commitments made that were not carried through. Those are much more serious in terms of critique.

However, I accept Deputy Bruton's point about political pragmatism. I exclude him from any criticism in this regard because his climate change plan from 2019 represented a step forward in this area and fundamental progress, which had been missing up to that point, on budgets, tonnage and labelling where progress could be made. That was a pragmatic step froward, but the reality is we are now three years on and need even more commitment and drastic changes. That is a sad state of affairs to be in, but let us not be too pessimistic about political pragmatism.

One can sell the idea that we are entering a post-carbon world which will have opportunities, better health and air quality, and better and more efficient use of energy and food. These are aspects we should not necessarily think of as barriers for the future to be sold by the political system. We can go out and trumpet them, rather than looking at the negative aspects which we may have focused on too much today.

Yes, there is a need for pragmatism and giving politicians scope, but there is also a need for leadership and decisive action, which, as Professor McMullin was saying, overrides many of those issues at present. I urge the committee to grasp the nettle in the opportunities being offered by the climate change situation we are now entering.