Mr. Robert Morton:

I picked out three questions. On consultation, the most important consultation that should take place is between the supervisor, the manager and the staff member. There are supervisors in Carlow and Kilkenny and there is a manager in the area. The first person that I would expect to listen to and to speak to the staff is the local manager. That is critically important.

The Deputy asked about whether managers are permanent or not. In order for that consultative relationship to be effective, you need stability of leadership. It is fair to say that the south east in particular - and, to an extent, the south west - has suffered from a fluidity in managers. That is partly because people have left the NAS to pursue other opportunities in the wider HSE or perhaps they have left the HSE altogether. While the NAS is a relatively large ambulance service in global terms, it is a very small service in the HSE. There are many more managerial opportunities for people to pursue their careers in the wider HSE. That has been one feature. From a management perspective, 2022 will be the year of stability. We have approval from the HSE and the Department for plans. It will be reflected in the service plan which the Minister will publish in the near future to bring about changes in the management structure which will stabilise and improve the position. The Deputy's point is well made.

I completely accept it in that a lack of stability in leadership has a detrimental impact on staff and whether they feel listened to.

The other issue to touch on is the local centre. It is probably important to reflect on why the centre arrangements changed. I am from Laois, as members can probably tell from my accent, but I have vivid recollections of the Carlow ambulance not going to Graiguecullen because it was in a different county. If you needed an ambulance in Graiguecullen, it had to come from Portlaoise. Likewise, if the ambulance in Carlow had gone to Kilkenny, the ambulance in Athy would not go because it was in a different county and under a different control centre. The national centre has got rid of all that. The fundamental reason the Deputy and her constituents are having the experience they are having relates to the capacity issue. If we address that, the national control model will come into its own and will prove to be the effective model we know it is nationally and internationally.