Barry Ward (Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I appreciate what the Department has said in respect of interviews. There is so little time to go through what is good in this Bill. I recognise its importance and specifically what was said about the codification of this legislation, finally. It is putting in place what the Supreme Court has said in Gormley and other cases, and that is important. It is a difficult area to gauge because we rarely get to see inside Garda interviews, but in my professional experience, I have never seen a situation where a solicitor interferes to any significant extent in the interviewing process. I know that from speaking to my solicitors. It may well be that the solicitors who are interfering do not brief me. That might be the case. However, the solicitors I speak to find they have very little opportunity to intervene during questioning. I do not think it is an issue, though I am absolutely open to correction on that. I heard what Ms Woods said about what the Garda has said about the matter. I acknowledge that, but I think it is problematic in the context of what we are talking about. I endorse what Deputy Daly said, that one can see in the videos of interviews that solicitors are behind the people who are being questioned. There is no opportunity for communication other than for the solicitor to render legal advice in front of the gardaí. That is a difficult situation for a solicitor.

I still have difficulties with this because I do not believe there is a substantial element of talking over witnesses or things like that. I do not think that happens though, as I say, I am open to correction on that point.

I do not have the relevant part of the Bill to hand, but the Bill codifies the right of the person to take legal advice out of earshot of gardaí although it can be within visual range of gardaí. For the most part, that is not an issue but there will be cases of gardaí who are able to lip read although I know that might sound far-fetched. Some people may be using the benefit of a sign language interpreter. There is potential there for the confidentiality of that consultation to be compromised.

I also wanted to speak to the point about recording the ethnicity of people. I absolutely agree with the comments that have been made to the effect that the power of search is executed by the Garda in particular circumstances and very often, for example, the power under section 23 of the Misuse of Drugs Act is used wholesale by the Garda to effect stop and search powers, and not always legitimately. It is not only me saying that because the courts have found that to be true. I am wondering about the point around recording ethnicity and whether, in fact, we should be recording more than ethnicity. Would people acknowledge the difficulties with the subjectivity of that recording exercise by the Garda?