Mr. Martin Collins:

I will, if it is okay with the Chair. All that is totally accurate. We know anecdotally that the level of hate speech and rhetoric and hate crime directed at Travellers and Roma is significant. There is also some evidence in the Irish Network Against Racism, INAR, study of hate-motivated attacks. It is significant but as Ms Liston has said, it is also hugely under-reported for reasons of lack of trust and lack of confidence that it will be taken seriously or investigated and dealt with effectively and so on. We need to develop mechanisms whereby Travellers and Roma can feel confident in reporting such incidents and where such incidents will be fully and effectively investigated. I deliberately stated at the very beginning that this Bill, which will become legislation after it goes through the various Stages, needs to be victim-centred and it needs to give an effective legal remedy to those who experience hate speech and hate crime, because the Prohibition of Incitement to Hatred Act did not do that.

It is correct to state that it is so difficult to prove intent. I am aware of a court case in Kerry a couple of years ago where a man was brought to court. He admitted that he posted a message in Facebook that baby knackers should be used as bait for sharks. He was identified and brought to court and he admitted posting it, but the judge dismissed the case because intent to incite hatred could not be established. I am not an academic or a human rights lawyer but I imagine that if the demonstration test was applied in that instance, a conviction would be secured. I may be wrong in that but it is a layperson’s opinion. The motivation test is important but it is essential that the demonstration test be included in the Bill when it is finalised.

People frequently and unnecessarily conflate two issues. This is not about curbing freedom of expression. We all know that freedom of expression and free speech also carry with them certain responsibilities and obligations. As we all know, free speech does not entitle anyone to incite hatred or violence towards marginalised or disadvantaged communities. As it has happened in other jurisdictions, it is not beyond the ingenuity of our lawmakers and drafters to develop a piece of law that protects the right to free speech, which is essential in any democratic society, but also protects vulnerable groups from hate speech and hate crime. It is essential that the Bill is victim-centred but I also acknowledge the rights of defendants. A balance must be struck when the legislation is finally realised.