Ms Averil Power:

We have been lobbying for this legislation for a good few years now. The Irish Cancer Society and the Irish Heart Foundation work together very closely on this and we have had joint meetings with different Ministers about it. As I mentioned in my opening contribution, there has been resistance on matters such as flavouring and marketing. We understand that resistance is driven by a view in some quarters that vaping can be helpful in quitting smoking. That is not our view. We have done an extensive review of the research. It is not the view of the WHO, the US Surgeon General, The Lancet Respiratory Medicineor other international experts on this.

We understand that people, from their experience, know smokers who swear by vaping and believe, on an individual level, that it is effective. As I said, we support smokers who want to try to quit through any means they can. We know exactly how hard it is but we can only advocate for measures that are evidence based. We have heard from officials that they believe that regulating e-cigarette marketing and flavours will make these products less attractive to adult smokers. We do not believe that is true. Do members really think that the packet Mr. Macy showed them, with "juicy" printed on the front and which looks like a packet of sweets, is really aimed at the 60-year-old adult who smokes four packs a day? That is absolutely not the case. Somebody moving from the taste of tobacco to vaping does not need something that tastes like pineapple or cola.

We do not believe that is true. However, while other people have genuinely held views, we must bring forward our evidence- based view that they are not appropriate. When the Department was before the committee on the Bill, one of the officials said that people are voting with their feet for for vaping because vaping has become very popular.

I will return to the question Deputy Burke has highlighted which is we are not giving them realistic options. We were really disappointed to see a reply to a parliamentary question tabled by Deputy Louise O'Reilly last year that State expenditure on smoking cessation medications actually failed by 12% between 2010 and 2019. We are not giving people the help they need to use the tried and tested methods of NRT. People need peer support. We have developed the We Can Quit programme that we piloted and worked with the Department to have it mainstreamed as a quit support. People need a mixture of affordable alternatives and practical hands-on peer and behavioural support. It is only when those are available that it is possible for people to quit. The advertising and marketing is part of that, to make people aware of the importance of quitting. Most smokers want to quit. They know what smoking is doing to their health, the risk of cancer, the impact on their household budget, particularly those on low incomes, but they need the practical supports to make it possible-----