Mr. Donal Sheehan:

I see buy-in from farmers but I am more sceptical about the industry and, possibly, the Government. I do not think they see issues that have a non-financial value. I keep saying we have to put a value on nature and quality of life. Farmers are beginning to do that, but for everyone else, the question seems to be what the profit margin is. Biodiversity, at the moment, has very little potential for a profit margin. Farmers have to put something on it themselves. When I go out in the morning, I walk among trees and listen to the birds. I put great value on that. We get so many queries from farmers and non-farmers alike. I have a field of wildflowers that I call a biodiversity plot. It is on the top side of the farm and I will go there after this meeting concludes. It is kind of my therapy there.

Farmers are beginning to appreciate that there is and there has to be another way of life. I spoke to a farmer not that long ago who was only 27 years of age. He was a manager who was getting out of farming. I asked him whether it was because of the money but he said the money was quite good. He said his girlfriend was a teacher, and he was getting up at 6 a.m. and not seeing her until 7 p.m. or 8 p.m. that evening. That is the price of the road we have gone down. When the Government sees the value of all those things, we will become a better society.

Dr. Dunford spoke to the quality of our food. We are known as a food nation but we are not able to stand over it. We can deliver on food quality, quality of life, water quality and biodiversity, but we have to be given the correct signals. If the Government keeps its focus on this €12 billion of food exports, we will not get anywhere. I spoke earlier about the space for nature and the figure of 10%. There is a debate currently about whether the figure should be 4% or 5%, which Dr. Moran mentioned. The lowest figure on BRIDE farms is 6% or 7% and those farmers have increased to 8%. The average in the BRIDE project is 13%. A target or ambition of 4% space for nature, therefore, is not even on the scale. If the average of 13% for nature among farmers in the BRIDE project is assumed to be the average throughout the country - I do not know what the real figure and I do not think anyone does - that is the level we are at with all this biodiversity loss. We actually need to go well beyond 13%, therefore, and a minimum of 10% is what we are saying. That would be a great start.

Ireland is in a great position, despite all the reports of habitats being taken out. We still have many of them. We are in a position to restore them and we would be well ahead of any other country in the world.

I worked in New Zealand and two friends from there came over here about six months ago. They were walking the farm and could not figure out why I had hedgerows because they were taking up space for the cows. That is what we are dealing with across the world. That is the road we have all gone down. Despite everything, we are fortunate that farmers still have an appreciation. We are in a great position to start restoring these habitats but incentives must be provided. The Government saying it wants to improve biodiversity and sort out the climate problem is the greenwashing I am talking about. We need action on the ground. Above all, we need direction. It would be fantastic if someone in a position of power and authority were to make a bold statement that we need to change and we are going to change. Farmers are getting mixed messages. The reason there is so much confusion and anger out there is that there is no direction.