Dr. Geraldine Brennan:

I take the Deputy's point.

With regard to those targets, it is again a matter of how they are framed. To go back to my opening statement, the industry members want a dialogue. As the Deputy says, it is a matter of complying or explaining but they want an environment where they are also supported to address those targets. I take the Deputy's point but it is fair to say that, with regard to driving momentum, targets that focus the mind can always help. Someone referred to the European Union's policy in an IBEC webinar with industry recently and said that a regulatory tsunami was coming down the tracks for industry. A lot of industry actors do not have regulatory departments. They do not have people to unpack the policies. With regard to engagement in the circular economy strategy, engaging with CIRCULÉIRE would have been the first time some of our members had engaged in a policy dialogue. Whichever way those carrots and sticks are used, there needs to be a supportive environment to incentivise and maintain that momentum.