Thomas Byrne (Meath East, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

Present themselves - I think the Irish media would be fascinated to hear from them as opposed to just politicians all the time so I think that would also help. I would certainly encourage that. I ask anybody who would be interested - and I do not know their identities - to please speak out and say whether he or she thinks it is a good or bad process and what he or she thinks of the issues involved.

Regarding the protocol, I again thank the Opposition and members from all political parties for the unified approach to Brexit in this country. We adopted that approach in opposition and I see the Opposition doing it now. It is so important that when a member of the Government, whichever party is in government and that changes all the time, goes to Europe there is a united approach in this country on this issue. It speaks volumes to our colleagues in Europe. When I arrived at the General Affairs Council yesterday, quite a number of my European colleagues approached me to see what my reaction and the Irish reaction was. I had spoken to some of them already. Members will find that, by and large, European colleagues listen to the Irish reaction and accept it. Many of them do. Yes, there will be different nuances from some member states regarding particular issues but, generally speaking, the Irish approach is certainly asked for and adopted. I thank my colleagues for that.

I know that this time last year, I was telling Deputy Ó Murchú that a European minister was coming to the Deputy's constituency along the Border. It did not happen because of Covid and we did not know about numbers but another minister from another country has indicated that they want to come to see the Border this year. We wonder all the time whether the interest is being sustained. It is being sustained. All long as Covid allows it, which I suspect it will, I will invite Border Deputies to meet that minister once the visit has been arranged and we get confirmation. We have not confirmed it yet. It is fantastic to see that interest and that ministers from other countries ask to visit the Border. That is very welcome. They are also very aware of the peace process and are as frustrated as the Deputy and I are at times but they also know that what we are doing here is to make sure there is peace on the island and prosperity in Northern Ireland.

I broadly welcome the unionist approach, particularly when they talk about welcoming, engaging and acknowledging that the Commission came a long way. These are phrases we heard from the unionist community. That type of reaction gives space this week for talks. The significant and immediate public support from business and agriculture on a cross-community basis was really welcome. People in Europe are pleased to see that and that what they feel is a good package has been received as such.

There is a lot of background noise. I acknowledge it is very difficult to stay out of that at times but sometimes we have to do so, for example, to allow space for these conversations to take place this week and in the coming weeks. I hope the process will not be too long. The Commission has gone a long way and it is very hard to find real arguments. The argument about the European Court of Justice is not a sovereignty question. We saw the issue of weights and measures this week. Again, nobody knows what an ounce is - let us be honest about it - so I suspect that is not going to be an issue. We already have some exemptions in Northern Ireland. For example, there was never any issue with miles or yards on signposts in Northern Ireland so sometimes these issues are exaggerated. We want what is best for business and people in Northern Ireland.

I might briefly discuss Covid. What the Taoiseach would like to see this week from the European Council, particularly with regard to Covid, is very strong messaging on booster vaccines. That is something he has been talking about and about which he is very keen. We have seen the efficacy of the booster vaccines in countries where they have been applied. We are delighted that booster vaccinations for the over-60s have got the go-ahead from the national immunisation advisory committee, NIAC. We are obviously concerned about the rest of the population, particularly healthcare workers, who have been among the longest vaccinated. We know about the effect of the vaccines waning. The European Medicines Agency has already spoken about booster vaccines in a very positive way and I think the Taoiseach will be very keen to have the issue advanced at a political level as well. He will be looking for strong statements on this from the European Council.

Regarding the rule of law, which was raised by Deputies Ó Murchú and Harkin, many different measures are being used but, ultimately, we just have to keep talking as well. That is what I am saying. I could go through the entire Article 7 process. There is a long process and we are not near the end. It is useful to keep these issues in the spotlight. It is not just for us to keep them in the spotlight. It keeps them in the spotlight in home countries as well. The European Court of Justice made a decision in July and the Commission sought from the court what it calls an exceptional step to impose a daily penalty on Poland citing a lack of compliance with the July court decision. It has, therefore, been taking this matter very seriously. This is only for a matter of months.

Deputy Harkin asked what would happen if the conditionality regulation fails at the ECJ. I do not think I should get involved while the court is deciding the case. Ireland intervened in a very strong way in support of the Council position. I think that will be very strong. This funding is important. We want to see progress, particularly in eastern Europe and less developed economies, but we are also paying for it. We pay for that with a generous heart. The Taoiseach and the previous Government did not join the frugal four at the time but when we are funding this, it is reasonable for us to ensure that democratic values and the basic values of the EU are upheld.

I disagree with Deputy Harkin that there is any change in the position of the Government. I have spoken to the Taoiseach and at meetings of ministers with responsibility for European affairs. We have taken a very strong line on this and I am very strong in my interactions with the General Affairs Council and the public media regarding these issues.

We have also been a member of a like-minded group on the rule of law for quite a number of years so we are certainly not out of the mainstream on these issues. I would not say there is a change in position from Government on this. The Government is very strong on this, and it is likely to be raised at the European Council. It is not on the agenda at the moment but it is certainly likely to be raised. There will be some strong statements on this which will be looking for action.

On the supremacy of EU law, the European Single Market for example could not function if there was a standard set by the European Union and then some countries opt not to comply with that but to have a different standard. It is not actually a matter of power, or sovereignty. It is really a matter of practicalities about how we ensure that the rules are the same in every country. Those rules traditionally were those of the Single Market but of course our values are also fundamental to us.

It is important when we are talking about the European Court of Justice to keep saying - it is a great phrase from an Austrian colleague - that Europe is not Brussels or Strasbourg or Luxembourg. This is Europe. Achill Island is Europe. Recently we had a judgment from the European Court of Justice as Gaeilge. I met the plaintiff who took the case, he is from County Meath. This is our court. It is not some foreign court as it would perhaps have been described in the debate in Europe. This is a court that is the ultimate arbiter of areas, and Deputy Harkin is right, where the European Union has competence. If the European Union does not have competence then the European Court of Justice will not get involved. It is our court. Our people are on that court. Gerard Hogan, one of the most respected legal jurists in this country ever, who has just been appointed to the Supreme Court here has just come from being Advocate General to that court. So this is a court with a huge Irish influence over the years and that continues today with the current appointees as well.