Mr. Ken Whyte:

Can I throw a caveat in, because in Ireland we get a little fixated on certain things? Apprenticeship is in; it is a big thing. There are only 5,000 to 6,000 apprentices out of the huge number of approximately 80,000 school leavers each year, so it is quite a small number. It is a very important one, and has always been. We must be honest and say that most students are not going to think about apprenticeships or traineeships, which are a particular type of apprenticeships that are sometimes more suitable. The key thing is the attitude, and parents must take certain responsibility for that. As parents, we do not really see apprenticeship as a valid option until our children have explored virtually everything else that is on the table. I mentioned earlier, somewhat jocosely, that perhaps it should be put through the CAO system, put 400 or 500 points on it and then, from a career guidance point of view, it would become the same as doing a BComm, a BBS or a science course. Unfortunately, until that happens and given the way Irish people think, it is just not going to go there. In the short term, we have a shortage of apprentices at present and we are trying to backfill those, but that will pass again and we will go back to it. The blunt answer is that it has to become a viable leaving certificate option for people, if one wishes to achieve that.

Another point you made, Chairman, about the nurse and the doctor was very interesting. It is quite common in certain countries in Europe, particularly France and Germany, for somebody to start with an apprenticeship or skills-based learning when he or she leaves the formal secondary school and work his or her way up. In fact, two chief executives of large motor companies in Germany started on the shop floor in those companies and worked their skills up over the years. They both ended up with PhDs and as chief executives of those companies.