Dr. Joseph Ryan:

Returning to the previous point I made to Deputy Ó Laoghaire, I have been taken by the focus of the committee on this subject, the attention it has given it and the thoroughness with which it is going about it and taking different perspectives. It is about bringing that together in an informed way with the report from the NCCA, which has been going on since 2016. That is reforming a system that has not been reformed for 20 years. It makes no sense to me to have two parallel processes that may meet too late in the day. That is how it seems to me, just to echo a point the Chair is making.

As to whether there is an appetite for reform, the Chair is closer to this than I am. I am conscious that we have gone down the line of creating a new Department, the one referred to by Mr. Whyte, with a specific mandate. That is clearly because Government feels the role of further and higher education is critical for our society and economy. If we have taken that view, the logical concomitant is to then look at the other interrelated pieces. The leaving certificate is a critical piece in that for informing it. The fact we have gone down that road means there should be an appetite to look at reform.