Mr. Ken Whyte:

I will work backwards. The modules and credits type system is common enough. I refer to it as part of the leaving certificate applied. It is a model of assessment that works well. It is time-consuming but the positive for students is that it is a form of formative assessment that can be used to build them towards their result and guide them to improve their performance as they go along. There is certainly a lot of merit to it.

The Deputy has answered the question on apprenticeships himself. If a course required 450 points or 500 points on the CAO system, people would beat the doors down to get on to it. That is the reality to a certain extent. Apprenticeships tend not to be considered until all the other options have been looked at. That is what is killing them. In Germany, and particularly in Austria, apprenticeship is on the same par as any other option.

In those countries, it is possible to work one's way from an apprenticeship back into university to do an honours degree and then a masters or PhD degree down the road. If an answer is desired in this regard then, there it is to a certain extent.

Regarding the disadvantage, it is concerned with targeted supports. We find this a great deal in Youthreach. Elements like information technology and literacy and numeracy are key. There is no question about that. Guidance and supports are in place now for students within the Youthreach family as well. Those aspects have become very important in recent years because it has become more complicated for young people to thread their way through the "system", particularly in the last decade or so. Having that guidance capacity to help students to thread their way through the process has become crucial.

Turning to the query on the Irish language, I do not want to comment too much on that issue because it may be more of a second-level issue and I am here not as a former principal but as a representative of Youthreach. To a certain extent, however, the level of Irish required in the leaving certificate applied is concerned with everybody achieving a certain level of competency. The difficulty with Irish in the leaving certificate perhaps lies in doing Irish and achieving points being linked together. As was suggested, perhaps some kind of applied Irish could be used to gain points but, equally, it would also be ensured that everybody would have a certain standard of Irish, which could perhaps be examined in transition year. This debate might be similar to splitting English into English language and English literature as students progress. That approach might be a way to encourage Irish, because it would be possible to have expectations of a level slightly lower than leaving certificate Irish while ensuring that everyone would have that standard. Those who then wished to use the language to gain points could then go on and develop that over the last two years while in school.