Cormac Devlin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I thank the witnesses for their insights into this issue. I get the sense from my colleagues on the committee that we could spend all day talking about it. The whole topic is fascinating because of the breadth of issues it covers. I note both witnesses stated they watched the committee's discussion last week. From my perspective, and as Senator Higgins just said, this is about manufacturing. We want to reduce the volume of unnecessary waste at whatever stage of its life it is discarded and, hopefully, reuse it in many different ways. If that is not the case, we need to ensure that the manufacturing industry is thinking about the longevity of the product it is manufacturing and, ultimately, how it can be reused, recycled or repurposed. I would like to hear both witnesses' thoughts on how, in the circular economy, we can tackle that aspect in the proposed legislation, bearing in mind that, realistically, much of the stuff we are talking about is probably imported. While it may be a moot point for some manufacturers, those that are located here would have to abide by that.

I agree with the witnesses' comments about strengthening the wording. I believe Senator Pauline O'Reilly spoke about this last week and I totally agree. We owe it to the next generation and the generations that come after it to ensure this is strengthened. Ms O'Brien made the point that legislation must be for down the road; it is not for the here and now. This committee, of all the committees in the Oireachtas, is of that view.

Ms O'Brien also mentioned setting a percentage target for achieving this. I would be interested to hear, for instance, about manufacturing and reusing or repurposing products. Ms O'Brien said initially that she did not want a paltry target of 2%. I ask both witnesses to talk us through the various elements and what kinds of targets they believe we need to aim for to make meaningful change.

The other aspect I would like to touch on is contamination. By and large, the majority of people, regardless of their family make-up or product consumption, are eager to play their part. Unfortunately, contamination is not necessarily an act they are carrying out on purpose. Some of this is the result of misinformation. We are all aware of what kinds of plastics can be recycled. Contamination happens across the board, be it in what we would call our general waste bin or our compostable and recycling bins. That must be tackled, so we will have to be strong on education and fund it in the legislation.

On the issue of contamination, Ms O'Brien spoke correctly about the lack of compostability of some products that are labelled as such. That is a broad issue to discuss but she is right. The Houses of the Oireachtas should be leaders in that. I hope that VOICE Ireland will continue its engagement with the Houses of the Oireachtas to try to tackle that issue.

I will address a few other points made by Ms O'Brien. I note she is from Michigan. I am not sure which part but I must commend her on that. That is good news and I would like to hear more about it. She mentioned people who retain products. She is speaking to somebody who has a cupboard full of plastic containers that are kept for lunch boxes and God knows what else. Friends slag me over the number of Calpol medicine spoons I keep. I do not know how sick I going to be but I retain these things for a long time. What that points out, however, is the volume of excess products that we collect, which could either go for recycling or be repurposed at home.

Ms O'Brien mentioned that "producers must take responsibility for designing out waste in products and packaging." I mentioned the medicine spoons purely as an example for people who may be viewing this debate. We do not have an option to buy the product in question without a plastic spoon. That is where we need to get to with this legislation. Ms O'Brien also mentioned her friend with bananas in a bag. I wonder if she is still a friend after Ms O'Brien accosted her in the shop. As Ms O'Brien said, however, her friend made a comment about the cost and said it was cheaper to go for that option. As with our discussions on previous legislation about just transition, we must look at the cost of this. Single individuals and the elderly try to buy as few products as possible to ensure the products stay fresh but sometimes that is simply not an option. We need to look at that.

Senator Higgins's made a point about the waste electrical and electronic equipment, WEEE, return scheme, which has been a resounding success. If we were to model our circular economy on that system, I believe it would work very well.

Mr. Schweitzer said he watched our discussion last week and I commend him on doing so. Will he elaborate a little on extended producer responsibility? Touching on what I was saying earlier about manufacturing, I believe that is something we need to examine further. I might come back in later on the deposit return scheme.