Professor Gary Murphy:

I thank Deputy Farrell. There was a famous example a number of years ago where a Minister said he had been approached by a person with an access pass and they discussed an issue, and the Minister then went on radio to say that he did not consider this lobbying at all in any way, shape or form. I wrote about this publicly. I could not get my head around it. I think it goes to the heart of what we are trying to do. When I say “we”, I am using a sort of royal “we”. What the State should be trying to do is ensure that the citizens of the State are equal and, as the Deputy rightly points out, not everyone has an access pass and not everyone has access to political parties or to representatives, and that is what I am getting at. While it is beyond the purview of this Bill, maybe it is something that should be considered. I have long been of the view that things like access passes which allow lobbyists, potentially former officeholders, to have quiet words does not do anyone any favours. It certainly does not do the political system itself any favours and I do not think it does the citizens of the State any favours. It goes to this idea that someone can have a quiet word with a Minister and the Minister says, “Yes, that is a very good idea”, or someone can have a quiet word with a senior official and that does not get registered. I am deeply concerned and have been for a while that this needs to be looked at. That is all I was suggesting. It is an important point because either the citizens of the State are equal or they are not. If there is a potential favour being granted by access, that has to be looked at. Does that explain the point?