Mr. Brian Dillon:

I totally agree. Ms Casey said earlier that we have total support from the Department. I totally accept that. The Department is coming to us with those same questions and asking whether we need support in different areas. From the point of view of the Vice Chairman's conclusion, it is our intention and ambition to grow into these areas. We would like to think that we will get that support when that happens. I just cannot be very specific about it now.

It relates a wee bit to what the Deputy said about the transient sites. We have had that discussion in depth with the Department. We have teased out a preliminary proposal around transient sites. We are working on that as an ongoing proposal but it has led to interesting and useful conversations within the Traveller community. This begins with the realistic statement that the reason transience or nomadism worked was that there was a sophisticated network between Travellers and Traveller families, which determined who went where and that was respected. Timing was also involved. I do not want to be flippant about it but can that nomadism be magically recreated three or four generations later? It is not that simple. We put forward a proposal for a pilot programme but subsequently we thought, and have become convinced, that we should start with a serious discussion within the Traveller community about what that would look like. We will be going back to the Department with that proposal. We have to discuss how to build the infrastructure, which has been decimated. When nomadism is criminalised, the whole structure in which it operates is decimated. It is not easy to build that up again. A lot more thought is needed. We should have serious discussion and engagement with the Traveller community, and with all those who have an interest in that community, over the next year or so.

The mediation service was mentioned earlier. We work closely with that service as well. We must be clear that there are differences between families and between everything else. We will be going back with a proposal as to how we go forward with that, and we will begin with a serious engagement with Travellers. We think that will result in a pilot which we can get up and running. Cena seems to be open to doing that and leading on it.

On contracting, bigger and smaller contracts are involved. Many members would be more familiar with the procurement procedures and other aspects involved with such contracts. In the bigger procurement contracts for major building projects a detailed procedure must be followed and there are similar compliance requirements, etc. That does not mean that we do not encourage contractors who are Travellers. Believe it or not, there are Traveller contractors and developers. As with any other walk of life, the discrimination prevalent in Irish society is so desperate that these people do not declare themselves to be Travellers. They would not get work if they did. We are carefully working our way through that. We are not trying to fix any contracts, but to make the people we are getting to know aware of these contracts and encourage them to apply for them. That is on the higher level. On the lower level, we have much more control. Nearly every property we purchase will require work to be done to it. Some of it is basically unskilled work, like landscaping and so forth, and in those situations we immediately talk to Travellers who are able to come and do that work. We want to build on that kind of involvement in projects. We are hopeful and optimistic that we can make big inroads into employment as well.

The last query concerned planning permission. Ms Casey mentioned auctioneers. That is the front line in respect of local opposition. We are having that experience. There was an example in the Vice Chairman's constituency, in Galway city, where we had a pilot project that was shot down because of local opposition. Interestingly, however, we are now building five homes in Galway city where we were able to get around that problem. What is required is to take the problem on. Bit by bit, we want to face down such opposition.

To return to the earlier discussion about discrimination, our feeling in that regard is that one of the best weapons in the longer term is to highlight examples that have been successful. The development in Galway city is an outstanding example of what needs to happen. By the way, one of the Travellers there told us to look up the word "Rahoonery" in the dictionary. I do not know if the Vice Chairman is aware of the word but it means vile anti-Traveller sentiment which was translated into vigilantism. It is associated with the Rahoon area in Galway. We are building these five homes in exactly the location where the term originated and we are calling the development Boreen na Saoirse, on the advice of the Traveller man we are working with there to build it. That is a nice little example of how we can overcome such opposition. It is a good example and we want to make it an example of good practice in this area.

We get around these problems step by step. We have noticed that when people are homed in rural areas and people start meeting each other. I am answering that question in a roundabout way, although the query started with the subject of planning permission. However, we get such problems everywhere and we will fight them one by one.