Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I always welcomed the setting up of Cena. It was a major step. One of the challenges is that when things are done, people who are less well off in society, or more at its margins, are not involved in making them happen.

There is not the psychological ownership there should be. That is very important to most people, whether settled or Travellers. I really thought that the setting up of Cena would lead to that psychological ownership and involvement that has been missing for so long. It is fair to say that we are seeing the same pattern as is seen with indigenous communities throughout the world. The evidence is that they are marginalised from involvement in decision-making. I wish Cena all the best.

That raises another issue I would like to tease out. The witnesses seem to be indicating that they can do work not related to CAS, in other words, the building of houses and so on, without funding. Many other similar bodies would have their hands out saying that they need funding to do liaison and community work. Will the witnesses give a short explanation of this? Is it the case that they feel that, if they got more funding, they might lose autonomy, freedom or whatever?

The point that has been highlighted as to who decides what accommodation is appropriate to Travellers is key. Generally with social housing, including Traveller-specific accommodation but also other social housing, I have found over the years that the end users, those who will have to live in the properties, are rarely asked. I believe that leads to many of the problems we have. I am glad that issue was teased out. I hope the witnesses become world leaders in demonstrating best practice, which includes involving people in design, management and construction.

Mr. Dillion mentioned something I was taken with. He mentioned that he would love to get Traveller contractors. Has any thought been given as to how that might be realisable in light of public tendering processes and so on? Could it be put in the contracts or so on? I am interested in that because, if it could be achieved, it would be another step towards that psychological ownership and it would give employment to people from the Traveller community.

One of the issues that constantly puzzles me relates to the hierarchy of choices people will make. My experience of people is that people in desperate situations will normally take the choice they believe will give them the quickest answer even if that answer is less than ideal. They will take a house with HAP, not because they believe HAP is a good system but because it is the only house available. They will then look for a transfer and take a voluntary house, a local authority house or Traveller-specific accommodation but I often feel they take whichever they think they are going to get. Their preference is the one they will get the fastest because they have to get housed. A part of being homeless is having little choice. Does Ms Fitzgerald have any views on how many of the so-called choices people make are determined not by their real preferences, but by what they feel is the best way to progress their desperate situations?

One issue we have not touched on is transient halting sites. I address this to the Cena representatives. Does Cena see itself having any role in working with Government to provide a national network of transient halting sites on a planned basis? I refer to a network, not built county council by county council, nationally. These sites would be in the areas the Travellers themselves would like to travel to. Have there been any thoughts on that?

I will make a quick final comment. The replies can be short and focused. Has the difficulty in getting planning permission either through Part 8 or through the normal planning process, which allows for objections, been a major barrier to progressing projects in the Cena's experience? I would be interested in quick comments on those points before we do one final round to see if any Deputies or Senators have further questions or if the contributors want to do a final wrap-up.