Mr. Brian Dillon:

They are very important questions. I do not know if I can answer on the origins of discrimination, but I can give my opinion.

On feasibility studies, basically we are calling on them because we want to go beyond the notion of needs assessment. Needs assessment has been a one-dimensional, one-sided process up to now. We will typically connect with one of the local authorities. We will say there is a group of families and we want to look at what the future solutions are for these families. We enter into the process, and that is an important word to use because it is a process of engagement. Our people are trained to liaise and to talk to people about their future accommodation needs, almost giving them the space to look at what the future is.

We write up our report very carefully. We always find that, among most people and in most places we go, there is an assumption that everybody wants to be in the location. Sometimes around half may not want to be. Families tells us that. Many of the Travellers we work with, including even younger Travellers, are shocked when they find out that nobody ever asks people a question in this regard. It takes a while and we go backwards and forwards. We write up the results. We examine the possibilities and ask whether there is land anywhere else. We ask what the properties are like beyond that. Sometimes people will have wanted, maybe for 20 years, to go across county boundaries, for example. This means that we start with one local authority and then negotiate with another to see how the matter can be solved. We have done that for perhaps six or seven counties now – I cannot remember the precise number. Some of this work will result in action for us. The five homes we are building in Galway city started out with a feasibility study because we found that the solution coming forward was acceptable to the local authority. Regarding another three, we are waiting to hear whether the solutions are acceptable to the local authority. If not – this is an important point for us – we will not remain involved. We would not want to be.

People were talking about money earlier. If there is €2 million to be drawn down to do a site up, we will not do it because we know for a fact that if you do not get the mixture right in respect of people who want to live with one another and effect long-term solutions, an issue arises. I am nearly confident we will now build at one of the sites in Carlow. We will definitely build in Kerry, outside Killarney. We are building in Galway and we have built in Tullamore. It is all based on an agreement with the relevant local authority to the effect that this is possible. As members know, the local authority has to sign off on our applications for capital assistance scheme money. We ask the local authority to pay for the feasibility study. It is not a lot of money. It is €5,000 or €6,000 but you would be surprised at the number of local authorities that say they do not have it. The Department helps us.

On relationships with other approved housing bodies, an important initiative for us involves the Department supporting us to take on two major projects. Each will have a dedicated worker who will be funded. One aspect involves working with one local authority area and then expanding – in other words, bringing the Cena model into one local authority area and then engaging seriously with all local authorities on how the assessment process should and can be engaged in. The scope for influence in this regard is considerable, as I am sure members will agree. The other aspect involves working across approved housing bodies. We do not want to stop with the bigger ones. We believe there is an amazing number of examples for Cena. The Peter McVerry Trust has very interesting apprenticeship programmes. We are going to learn an awful lot but we believe we will be able to employ the Cena model as well. This was one of the main recommendations of the expert review group. We are very confident that the relationships can be developed.

I agree that the tenant liaison officers are critical. There is total agreement among the Cena board members and staff that this is the future of the organisation. We have to have people trained who will consistently and constantly work with their own communities to develop and maintain self-determination. This is what they are trained to do. We have had brilliant people so far. There is a serious amount of enthusiasm to join us. It is a hard slog for the staff, however, because they have a lot to learn. It was said that other approved housing bodies have tenant liaison officers. We must not underestimate the amount of work of tenant liaison officers for Cena. We have already spoken today about the legacy of neglect in the sector. We are not just dealing with homes; we are also dealing with mental health issues and other issues regarding which people are connecting with services, such as addiction. Our tenant liaison officers have to bear in mind the full picture in connecting people. In addition, they need a serious set of community relations skills to build the respect required. The officers sometimes do as much work in the settled community as in the Traveller community. Typically, 14 social houses will be built as we build our four. There has to be mutual respect.

On the question on where discrimination comes from, one could get into a serious row. I do not know whether Ms Casey-----