Stephen Donnelly (Wicklow, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

We have to take any such resignation seriously. Ms Magahy is a serious person, Professor Keane is a serious person, and I take their resignations seriously. The Deputy will have seen substantial new proposals from me, the Department and the HSE on the governance of Sláintecare. I am appointing the Secretary General of the Department and the chief executive of the HSE to its implementation. That is the level of senior leadership that we will have. That board will report directly to me and I will report directly to the Cabinet.

The Deputy rightly said that damage had been done. That is true.

There is a perception among some that change is not happening. We heard a member of the committee say already today that the Department and the HSE are incapable of change. All I would say is that we, as parliamentarians, need to be very clear as to the evidence. Is there resistance to change? In my experience, people do not resist change; they resist loss. People from any walk of life or in any organisation, be it the HSE, the Oireachtas, Microsoft or whatever, will resist perceived loss. That is why we have to get the reorganisation right. If it is perceived as something whereby people lose out, they will resist that change. It is human nature. We all resist loss. It is why it is so important that the reorganisation is done right.

Doing a reorganisation of a healthcare system is a bit like trying to upgrade a Boeing 747 mid-flight. We do not get to shut down the operating theatres and tell the doctors and nurses to go home for two weeks. We do not get to shut the maternity hospitals. Everything has to keep running. All the patients have to be seen. No machine gets turned off and nobody gets to go home. While they are still doing their jobs under immense pressure, we have to rewire the system in an important way. That only works when the men and women who work in the system are brought into the change.

This is the point I was trying to make earlier. When any of us make statements saying there is no change or progress, and that these people - whoever they are - are incapable of reform, it is incumbent on us as parliamentarians to look at the evidence. The evidence we have is unambiguous. The Sláintecare office handed me a progress report stating that 97% of our projects were on track or on track with minor issues. Think about that - not 60% or 70% but 97%. I do not understand how an organisation can be 97% on track and at the same time incapable of reform. I think we would all agree with this.

I spend much time out in the healthcare system talking to our front-line workers. I believe I speak for us all when I say that what they have done over the last 18 months is magnificent. It is extraordinary. They are exhausted. Many of them are traumatised but they have lived change every single day. They are passionate about change and about the people they serve. When I talk to people right across our system, be it in the Department of Health, the HSE or our front-line workers, I see people who are passionate about universal healthcare and who have probably implemented more change over the last 18 months than any organisation any of us can see. Is it perfect? No. Does everything work perfectly the way we want it to work? No. Will we get pockets of resistance to certain ideas? Absolutely we will, as we will get anyway. Ultimately, this is a system that wants to and is capable of reform. We in government are deadly serious about reforming it to ensure 100% universal healthcare.