Ms Aisling Moran:

Go raibh maith agat Teachta Ó Cathasaigh. I thank the Deputy for the questions, which are challenging to answer. On education and the specific challenges there, the easiest way to respond to that question is by doing so in regard to one of the main islands that I work with. On the policy for primary school education, the Government has said that it would never close an island school. In 2012, the pupil-teacher ratio for the islands was 8:2, which was less than the ratio in respect of the mainland. However, if a school lost a teacher it had to have 12 students to gain that teacher back. Sherkin Island lost out because of the requirement to have the numbers in by 30 September. Our numbers went below eight for two weeks. They went back up to nine but never reached 12 and that was the beginning of the end for Sherkin Island. We lobbied really hard but we could not get anywhere with it. By the time that was rectified it helped some of the other islands but for Sherkin Island it did not matter. This is the fight Ms Ní Ghoill spoke about. It was too little too late for us by the time that happened.

It starts to fall down once that second teacher is lost. It is a factor when people come to look at the island. A family of four came to look and we had a one-teacher school and were not moving to a two-teacher school. There are issues with access to education at primary school level. As Ms Ní Ghoill said, Cape Clear had a major issue attracting teachers because it is much more expensive to live on an island. There are additional challenges, yet the Government incentives that were there before have all disappeared. There is no incentive to attract teachers in now and there is a huge challenge involved with trying to get teachers in to teach the island children. It is an issue for us at primary level and often for the islands around Cork.

If a school closes and parents want their children to travel in and out to school, then the existing policies do not cater for those children doing so or for their parents to go with them. It could cost up to €120 a week for parents to get their children to and from school. There is a waiting time of around five hours, including collecting them and bringing them back. In anyone's terms, that is not viable. It is not possible to educate our children that way. It is a small minority because we have the inshore islands down here with us. An island like Inisturk, however, has smaller numbers, but parents and children there will not be doing the same thing because daily travel in and out to school is not viable. Therefore, we must have discussions where people understand the nuances of the challenges involved.

I am not as qualified to talk about the situation with the secondary schools. Ms Ní Ghoill mentioned the resources. On Arranmore, they also talk about the challenges with subject choice and getting the children in. We are in the age of technology and blended learning, but children leave Inishbofin at the age of 12. The people on the island also had to fight to ensure that they were not forking out a fortune to get their children to and from school. Each island is a little different and it is necessary to understand the nuances in each context. This is never going to set a major precedent or cost the State a great deal of money. It will just take someone in the right Department with the right will a little bit of time and understanding. The knock-on effect of understanding this situation and doing this properly will be huge for the islands in the future. It should not take much in respect of developing new policies to put back in place what was there before in that regard. We have experts within the education and training boards and different Departments willing to give time. We are willing to come to the table to discuss the challenges at primary and secondary levels and acknowledge that they are different on each island. It is necessary to categorise them that way as well. It is important that people understand that aspect. I ask anyone else who wishes to talk about education from the perspective of their island to please feel free to do so.

Turning to the specific challenges with housing, Comhdháil Oileáin na hÉireann held a housing seminar workshop in partnership with Comhar na nOileán. I will read out some of the topics that came up. These are observations from island participants. Mention was made of issues such the lack of availability of year-round rental properties, houses available for the winter often being poorly insulated or difficult to heat because they are summer homes and in poor condition, the disproportionate number of holiday homes and many derelict and disused houses. Planning is a major issue. Deputy Ó Cuív asked about this topic. It comes across as an issue in all four counties. The way we live has changed. Years ago, we lived intergenerationally and the islands did not have as many holiday homes. We must now build more homes to accommodate the population. No policy considers this way of thinking. Ireland has more holiday homes now and we no longer live with our parents and grandparents. Therefore, if we want people to live on islands we must build more homes.

All the existing policies in this regard state, however, that we are in special areas of conservation, SACs, that it will cost us €10,000 extra to build and that it is necessary to build in a town, even though many of the islands have dispersed villages or the available land is not within the town. Again, what we need is a meaningful conversation to enable everyone to understand the nuances in this regard. More broadly, if people do not have a house or cannot build on an island then they will go. Once they are gone, they are gone for good. As Mr. Murray said, once people are gone from an island, they are gone. It is not like in a rural village or town, where people might go five or ten miles down the road. When people leave an island, it is very hard to come back. That is a major challenge. We must also measure what I call "latent homelessness", that is situations where those aged 25, 30 or 35 are living with their parents. People are also living in mobile homes. Some people can get into the summer houses from October to May, but then they have to find somewhere else to live. They might need to live in tents or with other people during the tourist season.

Those types of situations are never measured and they do not come across when we consider the islands. We have talked about this issue. Our numbers in this regard will never show up in social housing statistics compared with bigger towns or cities. However, I guarantee that if social and affordable housing was provided on any island it will be filled and will increase our population. In addition, I mention the concept of gateway-style housing in the context of a capital works funding programme. Such gateway housing exists on the Scottish islands. People seeking to come to those islands might be able to rent a house from the local authority or the local development company. It is possible to rent such a house for five years and then to move on. There are many options but, again, we need help with them. We are willing to come to the table with our own solutions and then to see what aspects we can merge and make work in that regard.