Rose Conway-Walsh (Mayo, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

I thank the witnesses. I listened intently last week and this to the submissions. As I see it, this is probably the biggest change management project we have undergone for decades. I note the differences in approach, particularly where Mr. Gillespie said we need evolution rather than revolution, while Ms Neville said we need radical change. I come down on Ms Neville's side because I think we need radical change. We have a decision to make. We either tweak around the edges and try to keep everybody happy or we do something fundamentally different. I acknowledge the wonderful work that is being done in schools with limited resources but there is an opportunity for change that we have never had. Change management and change are always uncomfortable and need to be because we only make progress out of our comfort zones. There will be discomfort.

In what we produce from the committee and the evidence we will hear, it is vital that we have resources attached to that and a commitment from Government that those resources will be delivered.

Looking at the leaving certificate, there is agreement across the board that we need continuous assessment. Currently we are cramming everything into two weeks while expecting young people to vomit up all they have learned on a page so we can tell them they are either good or bad and this dictates what they will do in their additional education pathways. That is totally wrong and out of sync with everything all of us believe in. It just cannot go on and we must stop such a process now. How we stop it and what we need to do that are the two questions.

I have heard what has been said about continuous assessment and the need for the external assessment. I suppose that concerns what I want to ask. Will Mr. Gillespie indicate how the external assessment would work in that respect? I very much like the idea of the different assessments being spread over two years. We need reform. We must all be honest about what might be my greatest fear. The students who can afford to get outside lessons, tutoring and support, whether it is in a particular subject or in paying €250 for career guidance, will be okay. There are, however, very bright students who cannot afford that and we are doing them an enormous disservice, which cannot be allowed to continue.

When we studied the third level sector last year, we heard that 75% of students said they did not get enough career guidance in second level. I appreciate the honesty from the witnesses around that aspect. For something that is so vital, there may be one career guidance person for 700 students. That is a waste of time and the school might as well not have any. It does not matter whether it is a wonder woman or a wonder man. It is a case of ticking the boxes and we are doing too much of that. Until we have the proper resources, we will continue ticking those boxes.

I have gone on a bit but what the witnesses are doing and hearing their voices is really important. Will Mr. Gillespie speak to me about how the external continuous assessment will work?