Oireachtas Joint and Select Committees

Thursday, 30 September 2021

Committee on Budgetary Oversight

Pre-Budget 2022 Scrutiny (Resumed): Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform

Photo of Michael McGrathMichael McGrath (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I thank Deputy Boyd Barrett. There is much to cover there and I will be as brief as I can but as helpful as I possibly can. The Deputy is right to point out that in coming to an appropriate answer on the question of recognition it is not about the Government having a conversation with itself. We do not have all the wisdom on this issue. Our country's approach to Covid was characterised by a collective effort and incredible solidarity by and large throughout the country. This is a complex and difficult issue. We recognise there is a need for special recognition to be given for the efforts of so many people. No one could dispute that front-line healthcare workers are at the very top of that tree in terms of the exposure and work they did. Others did an awful lot too and went above and beyond. It is challenging and complex. We need to come up with an answer and we will do this in a collaborative way. We have a Labour Employer Economic Forum, LEEF, process. It is a very suitable forum for us to discuss the issue in an open and honest way with trade union representatives and employer bodies.

The Deputy touched on carers. This is the point I made last week. Many carers had to carry an enormous burden over the course of the pandemic when disability services stopped and were shut down overnight on public health grounds. Carers had to provide 24-7 care. Many of them will point out they do this in normal times anyway but a far greater number of them had to carry this. How do we compensate and acknowledge their efforts?

It is impossible. We cannot put a value on it, and that is the truth. The long-term legacy is better public services generally, and that is certainly something I and my party strongly believe in.

On the issue of working conditions and the issue of having a genuine appreciation for the role of people in society on whom we really rely, I believe we understood that in a very clear way over the course of the 18 months. The Deputy mentioned a number of those sectors. That whole agenda is one the Government is committed to, and we will make progress in regard to low pay, working conditions generally and providing as much support and opportunity as possible for people.

In regard to health, the additional spending, both last year and into the future, is first and foremost to build up the permanent capacity of the public health service. Last year, for example, the funding we provided was sufficient to increase the number of acute beds in our hospital system by more than 1,100 in a single year, which was a very significant step. It will not be fully met in delivery but it will be largely met, and the outturn will go a long way towards that. The funding that was provided for that last year will be considered as part of the Estimates process. If they were not able to spend it this year, the intention would be to allow them to keep that funding so they can implement fully next year those reforms we would have discussed and agreed last year.

Beds is one issue and the Deputy mentioned critical care capacity. That has to be a learning from Covid, if we are to be honest with ourselves. We did withstand the Covid challenge and the Covid surge, but at a price. No country can take the risk of its public health service being overwhelmed because of capacity issues. The Government is committed to dealing with the capacity issue in acute bed care and critical care capacity over the period ahead. I think we have made very good progress, even in the midst of a global pandemic.

In regard to housing, the specific allocation from the Exchequer to the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage will be confirmed on Monday when we publish the new national development plan out to 2030. It is important to acknowledge that housing will be getting very significant increases, which will underpin the delivery of the Housing for All programme. The figure the Deputy mentioned of €4 billion does involve some non-direct Exchequer funding, for example, through the Land Development Agency, but it is public in the broad sense of the word, and it is going towards building homes - social homes, affordable homes and cost rental homes. I think it is fair to put that figure in the total public investment by the State in meeting the challenge of Housing for All. The direct Exchequer element of that public contribution will be set out when we publish the national development plan on Monday. It will represent a very large increase in capital spending for the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage over the next number of years.

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