Oireachtas Joint and Select Committees

Wednesday, 22 September 2021

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach

General Scheme of the Protected Disclosures (Amendment) Bill 2021: Discussion

Mr. John Wilson:

As Mr. McGree is aware, there is another whistleblower in the midlands who has been fighting a long, arduous battle for more than 30 years, but that is a different story. Regarding Deputy Durkan's contribution, it copper-fastens the need for an independent office to deal with protected disclosures, as proposed by Deputy Tóibín. On a personal basis, it is great to see Deputy Tóibín looking so well after his problems. Thank God he is back to full fitness. We need a properly financed, independent office to deal with protected disclosures. It will cost a lot of money, but I take on board what Deputy Durkan said about the volume of correspondence he and other Deputies have received.

I respectfully disagree with something Ms Grace said about Maurice McCabe being a success of the protected disclosure system. He was not a success of the protected disclosure system, or of the confidential recipient system, he was a success due to the wisdom of Mr. Justice Peter Charleton and the honesty and courage of Deputy John McGuinness. That is how Maurice McCabe was successful. People should remember that there was another inquiry, led by a retired judge, which was held behind closed doors that was not so benevolent towards Sergeant McCabe. It is important to put that on record.

I take on board also what was said by Deputy Tóibín, who was doubtful about the independence of people who sit on these boards or are part of these bodies. I agree with him. One can stick the word "independent" outside any building, but it does not mean that the functions being carried out inside are independent. It is important that we do not give up. We have to be positive. I have suffered. I do not want to open up old wounds, but life has been very difficult in recent years, as it has been for Ms Grace, Mr. McGree and all bona fide whistleblowers. It is important that we leave this meeting today feeling positive in the knowledge that this committee and other Members of the Oireachtas are finally going to take this issue seriously. It is not enough to enact legislation, the one word I want to see, that must leap from this legislation, is "accountability". Until we get accountability, we will go nowhere. We will be back having a similar discussion in five years' time.

If Andrew Harris had been the Garda Commissioner from 2007 onwards, I would not be sitting here today.

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