Ms Sinéad Gibney:

I thank Deputy Buckley for his questions and his really thought-provoking comment. If I may, before I answer the specific questions, I will first reflect on some of his comments and on Mr. Kirwan's. We talk about the Irish pattern of emigration and we are very proud of our diaspora and how we have established that diaspora all over the world. Right now there are 18 million people who are displaced, who cannot call a country home. Language is really important here. The Deputy mentioned the word "asylum" and that it jars with him, and it jars with many people, which is why we have moved away from describing people as asylum seekers towards describing them as international protection applicants. That language is really important because the reality is that they are not being provided adequate security and protection in their home countries; therefore, they are applying internationally to get that security and protection elsewhere. That is why they are in this system. Therefore, although we can compare the Irish experience, it is really important to point out that the reasons for so many leaving their countries are quite different from many of the economic drivers we see leading Irish people to choose emigration. Those are important points to make.

To Deputy Buckley's comments on diversity, it is lovely to hear about his own experiences and the events he described. Our research tells us there is a real appetite for this in Ireland, where 79% of respondents in a survey we recently ran said they believe Ireland benefits from being a diverse community.

The Deputy talks about how we get that louder voice there. I would call on two things. The first is awareness. We run awareness campaigns. We recently ran a very successful anti-racism campaign which got a huge response and which is now getting international recognition, but the budgets we can put behind such a campaign are limited. The Government also has to have an obligation - and fulfil the obligation - to change public awareness and attitudes, particularly in the light of the rise of far-right attitudes across all populations in Europe and beyond. That awareness is a really important Government commitment that I encourage members to push. The other thing I would call on is participation. We are here today and I can talk about some of the experiences of people in direct provision because I have spoken directly to them. However, one of the pillars of human rights and equality is participation. The voices of people who are impacted, who are in the system, who have come through the system and who work in the system must be a part of this. I was quite struck when I came before this committee to realise that there is in 2021 a Dáil committee which has an all-male membership. I was quite surprised by that, I have to say, and I am sure members are aware of that and sure they realise the limitation it places on them to comment on anything relating to gender issues. Similarly, this committee and all Dáil committees need to make sure that that participation is evident and that people who are experiencing the system get the chance to have their voices heard. It is something we do. A year into my role as chief commissioner, I can say one of the most valuable pieces of our work is making sure that that voice is front and centre in all the work we do.

I will outline a couple of things we have been calling for.

Since 2016 we have been calling for the establishment of a human rights and equality committee within the Oireachtas which I believe would give strength to some of the things that the Deputy is talking about and would allow the Oireachtas as a Parliament to see these human rights and equality issues or issues in society being developed early on in the process of legislation. There is a real appetite for it now as we emerge out of Covid-19. Many people have seen their own values challenged in this crisis of the pandemic and there is a real appetite to understand human rights and equality values and embed them into the work Oireachtas Members do as legislators.

The Deputy's own constituency of, I believe, Waterford has a very high proportion of people living in direct provision. I worked with a group in Waterford called MUKISA and as far as I am aware some 9% of the people living in direct provision at the time were living in Waterford.

As to models that are working, there is, unfortunately, not one at the moment that can be taken and replicated. In my own interactions with people who live in direct provision there are very different experiences. There are some centres that are run very well or better than others and some people will have good relationships with the management of those centres. There are good practices in existence but I do not think that we have one centre or experience yet that one could take as a model and replicate. That is why I think that this White Paper is important because it fully acknowledges that this system is not working and needs to be completely overhauled.

There are excellent projects in place like the MUKISA project down in Waterford which does an incredible job of that integration piece in trying to get people who are living in direct provision into education and work opportunities as soon as they can.

Unfortunately, I do not have a model that one can take and replicate and I understand the idea but I believe that it is the root and branch overhaul of the system that needs to happen. I believe that the seven principles that we have put forward, which I would like to read through now, will help with really overhauling this system properly. These are recognising and investing in the contributions of refugees and international protection applicants to our society; using the EU directives as a floor not a ceiling because we are subject to these EU directives but they are not where we need to get to but are where we need to start from; adopting a trauma-informed approach, which I have mentioned; cultural competency and training, which has also been touched upon; a focus on integration from day one; early and effective access to the labour market; and access to education and training. If one looks at those, they will in some way provide the model that the Deputy is talking about if they are properly embedded into the system, and would deal with many of these issues. I thank the committee.