Mr. Tim Cullinan:

I thank the Senator. His first comments are where we all need to be on this.

We want farming to be viable as well as sustainable from an environmental, social and economic point of view, obviously. If it is not economical, it will not happen. As I think we all know, this session is very important. We are sustaining an indigenous industry that has supported the country for many generations. We have seen that more than ever in the past year and a half through the pandemic. We were right up there with the first responders. We were producing good, wholesome food, and we all need to remember that. I do not want to stray from the matter of nitrates but I just want to make the point that if we do not produce this good, wholesome food here - the world population is increasing - then it will be produced in a less environmentally friendly manner in another country.

Senator Boyhan spoke about the impact on water quality and costs associated with that. That is my point. A number of the proposed measures in the programme, such as shortening the time during which farmers can get out with their valuable resource of organic fertiliser, will only add more cost, and for no gain at all. Low-emission slurry spreading, to which all derogation farmers are adhering as we speak, is already making an impact. It is getting better uptake in the grass of the nitrogen in the organic fertiliser and better utilisation, so we are doing that already. This goes back to our earlier point that if it becomes a legal requirement for other farmers outside of derogation to have this equipment, it will impact cost again. There has to be grant aid for this; there is no point in saying otherwise.

The fertiliser register is a complete game changer because farmers are business people and they will look at the start of the year and may want to buy their fertiliser for the entire year. Again, there is a lot of negotiation around all this. If we are to go down this road, we have to ensure that it will not impact how farmers conduct their businesses going forward.

Compliance is absolutely something we have been after for years. We have had a review of the appeals office to date, and I know the Minister is bringing in legislation around that. The sooner that happens the better in order that we have an independent person in there as well as farmer representation. What we are looking for is a type of yellow card system whereby inspectors will work with farmers - the carrot more than the stick. That is the way we need to go. Senator Boyhan is absolutely right that what we are doing now is ensuring that this will not impact farmers of the future. Mr. Keane is here. There is a duty on all of us as farm leaders to ensure we create an environment that will encourage young people into the sector.

Excretion rates are another thing that will impact the viability of farms. If we are to move in that direction, excretion rates should be brought in over a long period because they would change how a farmer produces milk. You cannot just turn off or on a switch and change that overnight so, again, that needs to be introduced over a protracted period.

Another area that affects the viability of farms is the notion that you cannot out-winter cattle below 140 kg. That is wrong. This has been done for years and years and we have to look at that area. Our expert on environmental matters, Ms O'Sullivan, is our executive for this area. If you do not mind, Chairman, I would like her to be allowed to come in just for a moment to respond to Senator Boyhan. She might like to raise a few other issues as well.