Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I thank members for all those questions. I will answer them in reverse. Of course, I can understand the anger of people who have made extraordinary sacrifices in the context of the restrictions they have had to abide by during the Covid pandemic. Certainly, the perceptions that many people have of the event in the Merrion Hotel generated a lot of anger. We heard that being expressed at the time. Has the appointment been tainted? Absolutely. The concerns that people have expressed is the reason Katherine Zappone decided not to take the job. She said she would not accept it because of the publicity around it. Clearly, the process and her appointment did not have public confidence and so it did not go ahead. That is the unfortunate consequence of what happened and of some of the mistakes that were made on our side.

I will address how we can take matters forward, about which Senator O'Reilly also asked a question. First of all, we have an obligation now to review the special envoy process in its entirety given the public commentary and the criticisms that have been made. One thing that may be useful is to try to get agreement with this committee on a way of appointing special envoys in the future if we are going to use that diplomatic tool to advance Irish interests in different areas. I would be very happy to do that. This should not be in any way party political or a matter of Government versus Opposition or anything like that. Special envoys represent Ireland in a non-political way in an area where we think we need added value. Special envoys were always, as far as I can remember, appointed on the basis of a Minister effectively headhunting somebody he or she thought would be very good, qualified and suitable for that job. Sometimes a special envoy role lasts for as little as six months and sometimes it lasts for a couple of years. A good example occurred in 2008 during the lifetime of a different Government when the then Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Dermot Ahern, appointed Nuala O'Loan, a former Police Ombudsman for Northern Ireland who was very highly regarded. She was appointed as a roving ambassador for conflict resolution and a special envoy to East Timor.

That is the kind of role involved. We appointed Tom Arnold to do a specific job, in terms of the context and the skill set we knew he had, that would add credibility to what Ireland was trying to say on food systems and nutrition internationally. That is what makes special envoys and their appointment different from advertising a job with the Department of Foreign Affairs. It is an appointment as opposed to an advertised position. Clearly, the criticisms and concerns raised about Katherine Zappone's appointment require me to put a new process in place and to get all-party agreement on that in terms of how that will be done in the future, something I am happy to do that through this committee.

If you turn a special envoy position into a normal advertised job, if you like, in some ways, it defeats the purpose of what you are trying to do. When there is an opportunity or when there is a short-term requirement to do a piece of work, often senior civil servants are asked to do it, some of them serving and some former. In terms of what many other countries have done, it is often the case that former Ministers or former politicians, as well as former senior civil servants, scientists or experts, are asked to do special envoy jobs. I can give lots of examples of special envoy roles in the US, Canada, the UK and Germany.

In response to what Senator O'Reilly said and what has been asked of me, I am happy to come back with a proposal around how we manage special envoys in the future, learning lessons from what has happened here, and looking to get all-party agreement on how we do that in a way that is transparent and has public confidence in the future. I am more than happy to do that given the experience of recent weeks.

On why this was done in the last days of Government before the summer recess, I spoke to my Secretary General and it was I who said we were bringing a whole series of appointments to Government, it was the last Government meeting before it broke up for the month of August, there were things happening in September we would like to have this envoy in position for, which I can talk about in a moment, and I thought it made sense to add this appointment to the appointment of multiple ambassadors.

On the salary, I have never described the amount of €13,000 to €15,000 in the way that has been described here, as a nominal salary or anything. I let that salary issue be negotiated by the Department with Katherine Zappone. I was not involved in it. The point I made earlier on it was that I never spoke to Katherine Zappone about money relating to this role. I did not think it was appropriate. Does the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform need to approve it? Yes, it does. It needs to approve any expenditure. I understand there was some correspondence on that and I presume that will come out under the FOI process.

In response to Deputy Ardagh and whether I felt this was a reward, no, not at all, but I had seen that Katherine Zappone had done a good job with us and for us in her role as a special envoy for the Security Council campaign. I also know Katherine Zappone has campaigned all her life on LGBTQ issues, freedom of expression and so on. Just like how other special envoys are asked to consider a role because people think they can add value, that was the context in which I asked Katherine Zappone whether she would do this. It was no more complicated than that. What has made it controversial, of course, is that she is a former politician and Minister. If I had asked Nuala O'Loan or Tom Arnold or a senior civil servant or a former Secretary General of a Department to take up this role, I suspect there would have been little or no comment about it. That is the truth of the situation.

With regard to sharing documents with the committee, of course we will try to share as many documents with the committee as we can. If we are going to be releasing them under freedom of information, there is no reason that we cannot share them with the committee as well.

On Senator Craughwell's questions and 13 special envoys for the UN Security Council, I cannot remember if it was 13 but there were a number. We were sending them to different parts of the world, effectively canvassing for support for Ireland. It turned out to be very successful. The truth is that, in my view, none of them was as qualified as Katherine Zappone was for this role. Ms Zappone had worked effectively with the Department and that is why I asked whether she could add value after that work. It was no more complicated than that. Should I have asked a serving civil servant? I could have, but I believe Ms Zappone was better qualified for this particular job. I have no idea whether we gave Ms Zappone a diplomatic passport. If she had got the role as a special envoy, she probably would have been entitled to a diplomatic passport, but she certainly would not have been in the absence of representing the Government, which she was not doing after she resigned as Minister. Certainly, there was no question of her travelling home to Ireland and claiming expenses from the Department. The role had not even been put in place at that stage.

I asked my Secretary General to speak to Katherine Zappone in terms of trying to finalise the arrangements. I think we shared the job specifications with the committee in terms of tasking to support the Government's objectives with a particular focus on the UN framework, including the UN General Assembly Third Committee, which is October to December of this year, the Freedom Online Coalition, which is December of this year, the UN Commission on the Status of Women, which is March of next year, and the UN Human Rights Council, which is June to July of next year; to support the implementation of LGBTI+ at international level, which is action 25 of the national LGBTI+ inclusion strategy which is led by the Department of Foreign Affairs; to support Ireland's international advocacy and initiatives on key annual events, such as World Press Freedom Day, International Women's Day, Pride Month and so forth; and to support the in-country advocacy work of Ireland's missions network through country visits. We were going to give her a specific list of countries where we thought we could benefit most from those visits. We agreed a timeframe with her and the next steps in terms of how we would launch her position and so forth. There is quite a lot of transparency about that and I am happy to share any other documentation that should be available to the committee.

Deputy Gannon asked if there is a template for special envoy roles. The answer to that question is "not really". The process is sometimes different depending on the type of role one is asking of a special envoy. Sometimes it is a special envoy for the Department of Foreign Affairs. That does not go to the Government. In this case, I believed it would be useful to go to the Government and get a special envoy endorsed by the Government, rather than just by me and the Department of Foreign Affairs. However, there are many examples of special envoys. I can send the Deputy details on each of them, if that would be helpful to the Deputy in terms of the process that was followed.

One of the other questions the Deputy asked was about how long in advance of the Cabinet meeting the Tánaiste knew. In terms of detail, I informed the Tánaiste and the other Fine Gael Ministers an hour before the Cabinet meeting. We were going through the agenda and I raised it as something I was bringing to the Cabinet. I had assumed the same was happening with the Green Party and with Fianna Fáil. That was not the case because of issues that I raised earlier. I mentioned it to the Tánaiste a few days earlier. He had texted me to say he would be seeing Katherine Zappone, who was coming to Dublin. I had made no connection that this was the Merrion event. I said to him at that stage that we had not finalised anything yet, but that we were working on whether Katherine Zappone could play a role as a special envoy. However, I did not give him any detail on that until in advance of the Cabinet meeting.

I have answered the questions but people can come back if I have missed something.