Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I thank the Chair. I might bring the Secretary General in on the process that took place in order that people may fully understand it. Members do not have the right to ask questions of an official. If it is helpful to broaden the explanation, however, I can certainly ask Mr. Burgess to do that.

I will address Deputy Cowen's questions first. I stated earlier that Katherine Zappone spoke to me in February in order to update me on work that she was doing in the UN system. I do not have written documentation of that call. My recollection is that the call took place in the second half of February. She updated me on her work with the United Nations Population Fund, UNFPA, and said that she hoped to work with it until the end of June or so. I also spoke to her after the US presidential election. Like many of us, she was hugely involved in following that election. She texted me around that time and I spoke to her.

When Deputy Brady said that I was clearly a close friend and had regular contact with Katherine Zappone, I do not think that would be an accurate assessment. I had a good professional relationship with Katherine Zappone, but I would not regard us as close friends per se. I worked with her on many projects when we were in government. She was very involved in the final nine months of our Security Council campaign. She was on the road travelling, lobbying and campaigning, as I was, to try to get support for our campaign. That is when I got to know Katherine.

The meeting with the Secretary General was on 24 February. We have a record of that in my diary and in that of the Secretary General. We checked the position in that regard. That was a meeting to discuss a number of things. The first was our first couple of months in the Security Council and the second was to look at a list of ambassadorial appointments that we had to make the following month. It would be perfectly normal that the Minister and Secretary General would talk to each other about trying to match up the right people with the right appointments in different parts of the world. It was at the end of that meeting that I spoke to the Secretary General. It was not something that was on the agenda or anything; rather, I made an informal comment at the end of the meeting. I had spoken to Katherine Zappone a few days earlier. I asked if Katherine Zappone could add value to our team in New York. It was as simple as that. The Secretary General said to let him think about that and he would come back to me. That triggered a process that I will ask Mr. Burgess to brief the committee on because it is important that people understand what happened. A lot has been said in recent weeks and this is a good opportunity to try to put the record straight.

There have been a number of questions regarding when the Tánaiste knew what happened. To be perfectly honest, he was not involved in these discussions. I did not involve him in them. The only time I briefed him in any detail was in advance of bringing this matter to Cabinet. We did not have a detailed proposal until mid-summer. I can go through that timeline if it would be helpful for people.

Genuine mistakes were made in the build up to the Cabinet meeting itself and I regret that. We should never have a situation in a Government meeting where the Taoiseach learns something for the first time, and that is what happened on 27 July. I am sorry about that and I apologised to the Taoiseach for it. I was bringing quite a lot of memos that day. We had a memo on new ambassadorial appointments, a memo on new embassies opening up, and a memo on Expo. We also had a memo on a proposal around Ireland competing for the America's Cup, and an update memo on Brexit, as well as an update memo on Ireland's first six months on the UN Security Council.

For those who have been involved in Cabinet meetings, what generally happens is that in the build-up to the Cabinet meeting, advisers talk to each other, they prepare for the meeting, they try to find out if anything controversial is coming up and they try to find solutions. For whatever reason, and this is my fault, I did not see the appointment of Katherine Zappone as a particularly big deal. Clearly many others do see it as a very big deal. It did not come up in the briefings between the party leaders and their teams. It should have, but it did not. The Taoiseach raised it in Cabinet that day, there was not a big deal made of it, we moved on and the appointment was approved, but I rang him after that to say that should not have happened and it will not happen again.

This was, by the way, in the Cabinet memo, but it was not spotted by some people. I have the page from the Cabinet memo in front of me, which mentioned a special envoy for freedom of opinion and expression in terms of an appointment. It outlined in brief terms what that was about and that the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Defence requested the approval of Government for the appointment of Katherine Zappone as that special envoy. It was actually in the memo.

Can I just say for the record, and I hope members will take this at face value, I did not even have to bring this to Government if I did not want to. If you look at the Kenneth Thompson appointment as special envoy for the Department of Foreign Affairs to the Sahel and Francophone Africa, that appointment never went to Government. He was a civil servant. We needed somebody in that part of Africa in the context of the work we were doing on the UN Security Council, and he was a special envoy for the Department as opposed to the Government. If I was trying to hide something here, I could have sought to make Katherine Zappone a special envoy for the Department of Foreign Affairs. We did not do that. I was anxious to bring it to Government as part of a series of other ambassadorial appointments we were making at the time, because I thought it was a good news story. I thought, in terms of her record and her credibility in this space, that Katherine Zappone was a very positive story and I brought it to Government. However, we did not lay the groundwork properly, and that was a mistake which should not have happened.

On Deputy Brady's question, he framed this in the context of a well-paid position for a friend. All I can say is in regard to Katherine Zappone is that even when I mentioned to her whether she would consider taking up the role of special envoy in this space, we never spoke about money. I asked the Secretary General to talk to her directly about that and to work out terms and conditions, and what he used precedent in the context of the Kenneth Thompson appointment in terms of how Katherine Zappone would be supported financially. It is important to be accurate.

On whether Katherine Zappone was lobbying, I can honestly say that she was not. She spoke to me in late summer but I can not remember whether it was before she left for New York or after she got there. However, she had been involved with my Department for about 18 months in advance of her leaving politics. It was linked to the UN Security Council work that we were doing. She said she was moving to New York and she simply said that if there was anything she could do to help my team in New York, she would be really interested in doing that, either in a private capacity or a professional capacity. That was it. It was a conversation, effectively, wishing her well for the future, no more or no less than that. It was many months later when I spoke to her in the context of the presidential election and then I spoke to her again, briefly, in February. That is what happened. I ask people to take that at face value.

In terms of the Merrion Hotel, I got a text telling me that it was on. However, I did not get a formal invitation or anything like that. I had no interest in going and I did not respond to the text. I was not in the country. I had no connection, knowledge, or interest, to be honest, in that event. I did not even know it was taking place. Afterwards, obviously, it became a big issue. I think many people regret that. It is up to the people who were there whether or not they want to make that known. My job is not to chase people on that. However, I had no involvement or knowledge whatsoever around that event.

Sorry, I am just trying to make sure I answer the questions-----