Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

First, I thank Senator O'Reilly very much for making the point better than I did that we are not talking about a reopening of third level because, of course, third level never closed in terms of the delivery of the service. I say that out of respect to the staff and students, who worked in the most extraordinarily difficult circumstances to keep the show on the road. People managed to graduate, albeit in a different from normal way. It often was not a graduation ceremony in person. I thank the staff for going, as the Senator quite rightly said, above and beyond.

All I can tell people absolutely honestly is that in my many engagements with staff unions, student unions and management bodies, I was really taken by the common purpose they all had to do well by the learner and follow public health advice. I have never asked and will never ask them to do anything that goes contrary to public health advice. I know they will never ask me to do anything that is not in the best interests of students and educational outcomes. I really want to say that. We are talking about the return to on-site education but not a reopening because it did not close. It just had to move online.

A really interesting question, which I am glad the Senator asked me, was about the issue of following action plans and what happens if people do not deliver. I take the point she made and I echo it. I see much goodwill, determination and passion across the sector to implement its action plans on sexual harassment and sexual violence.

The Senator asked a valid question, however, about what happens if something goes wrong and how we can ensure targets are met. Really, the answer is twofold. For the very first time in the history of the State, we have made it a requirement that every individual institution reports against delivery on its action plan to the HEA every year. That is important. Up until now, we have been asking our colleges to report on how they are doing on financial management, etc. We are now saying, as an Oireachtas and a Government, that we believe taking a zero-tolerance approach to sexual harassment and making sure campuses are safe is as important, if not more important, than many other issues. We want them, therefore, to report annually and not - I do not mean this flippantly - against woolly national frameworks but against their own specific institutional action plan and what they said they would do in college X. That is the first change both culturally and practically.

The second is exactly what the Senator said around the legislation. We have a chance to get the HEA governance legislation and higher education governance right. I thank the committee for the work it is doing on pre-legislative scrutiny. I want to get that legislation passed this year come hell or high water. We can work late at night like we have done many times to pass important legislation. It is essential we get this done by the end of the year. We need to know we have modern, fit for purpose, 21st century governance structures and that is not interfering with autonomy or education independence, which I value and respect so much and which is essential. It is, however, absolutely appropriate that we make sure the governance structures are fit for purpose. I would hope, as we begin to work through it, that we get the balance right between protecting autonomy and making sure the values and important national priorities we have around issues like sexual harassment are absolutely delivered on.

The third issue goes back to the reopening, about which I have a couple of things to say. First, everything we do on reopening will be grounded in public health advice. That is important to instill confidence in our staff, students and the communities in which the institutions are based. That is why our plan for reopening the third level sector - I am now using the "reopening" term - I should say our plan to return to on-site education is endorsed by public health and by the Chief Medical Officer. It is important that I say this to reassure staff and students that we are asking them to do only what our public health doctors believe is safe to do.

The second issue is the funding we have provided, on which I can send the committee a note. It is effectively to make sure that any changes can be made to campus layout in terms of health protection equipment such as face masks, personal protective equipment, PPE, other essential equipment for laboratories and workshops and additional college health and welfare service provision as well as taking into consideration additional cleaning and sanitation costs, costs associated with remote working that has been required to date, any ex gratiapayments to contractors required under public work contracts, staff and facility costs and testing and tracing costs. It is not money for a black hole; it is very much money to make sure the college campuses are safe for staff and students.

And yes, when I talked about some of the measures we will want to see taken to modify lecture halls to ensure people are safe, policy around ventilation will be a very important part of that. We will be intensively engaging in that with stakeholders over the course of the next week before we have our Covid-19 steering committee meeting. I will hand over to the Minister of State for the rest of the Senator's questions.