David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I was involved in driving the recognition of ethnicity five years ago and it is disappointing, as was said earlier, that more has not progressed since then. That was a major step and I remember the night in the Dáil when everybody stood up and applauded. It was seen as a big step forward and we can still build on that. We should all take serious note of what my friend and colleague, Deputy Ó Cuív, said. I have been of the view for some time that we have been skirting around the real issue of prejudice. I want to link that to what Mr. McCann said in his opening statement about councillors voting with impunity against the delivery of components of the programme. The vast majority of councillors from all sides, all parties and none, put themselves forward and want to serve their communities and the vast majority come under terrible pressure from constituents about this issue. That goes back to what Deputy Ó Cuív said earlier and the figures he gave. Has the Irish Human Rights and Equality Commission ever considered interviewing councillors on an anonymous basis? It could sit down with them and ask what is going on, what kind of pressures they are under, what they are experiencing, what is happening and why. We have to get to the nub of this. I am always a bit concerned when we have to go through litigation and the legal process, or even go to An Bord Pleanála, because that is ignoring the elephant in the room that Deputy Ó Cuív so rightly identified. Dr. McDonagh identified that as well. It is good to see her again. This is very basic and it goes very deep. We can move around with all the litigation and the courts at that level and we can get so far but we need to go much deeper. The Irish Human Rights and Equality Commission is probably the best body in the country to research that, to go deep into society and see what is going on.

I note that the departmental guidelines were changed in 2013 and applications on the basis of need were recategorised. Travellers were removed as a basis of need category and households were reassigned under alternative criteria such as homelessness, medical issues, being elderly, overcrowding, etc. Has that had any impact on the provision of housing? I also note an interesting report from the Housing Agency in 2014 on why Travellers leave Traveller-specific accommodation. That makes some very interesting points as well. In the UK there is Traveller-specific accommodation in many of the boroughs and it is well put together and well provided for. Here, even though we have criteria and guidelines for accommodating transient Traveller families, issued by the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage, those guidelines do not seem to be followed anywhere. We need to go far deeper into our society and find out what exactly is driving this prejudice that Dr. McDonagh identified so well earlier. I thank our guests for the work they are doing.