Pauline O'Reilly (Green Party) | Oireachtas source

I welcome our guests and congratulate Ms Austick. It is great to see her in the role.

The instances mentioned by Deputy Jim O'Callaghan and Senator Malcolm Byrne on academic freedom are at the sharp end of wedge. I have spoken about this before. The fear is that we are moving into a model - if have not already started and are now trying to reverse out of it - where there is a reliance on private sector investment in research.

That is part of the issue with regard to academic freedom. However, in some ways, with greater regulation comes more accounting. How does one account for things that are based around values, such as the value of learning? It is not necessarily about the outcome in terms of jobs or money for the economy but it is about opening our minds. That is not an easy thing for which to legislate. I am not sure what specific things the witnesses believe could be changed in the Bill to allow for that. I fully agree with Ms Dolan and I would like it to be included in the Bill but I wish to identify how specifically to do so.

As regards students, Ms Austick and possibly our other guests will have an input on this. We need to be really careful that we are considering future learners and future academics as well as current academics and students. I agree with Ms Austick regarding the important role of unions when it comes to current workers and their rights. I share all of the concerns raised relating to researchers and PhD students and some of the terms and conditions that have made it very difficult for them to stay in the sector. How do we ensure it is possible for them to remain in the sector? How can the unions help us to consider future learners so that we are not reliant on the State coming up with what it is we need for future employment but, rather, we consider how we, as a society, can move forward in terms of thinking about the future needs of workers? I hope that is not too vague a question. It is important to encapsulate it in the Bill but it is difficult to tie down how to do so.