Dr. Joseph Ryan:

I am happy to answer the question. I am stupid enough to walk into that minefield.

First, I will go back to where the Senator started, on second level and learning. With the construction of the new Department of Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science, we now have to deliver on the linkage between those two. Thinking our way through that on a whole-of-system piece is an important next step. There have been learnings from the different assessment approaches to the leaving certificate. I am part of a current discussion that is looking afresh at all of that. Again, it is think tank discussion, but it is interesting.

Non-EMA vaccines are a challenge. I mentioned this earlier in the discussion. People who have taken those vaccines, whether they are in China or India, understand themselves to be fully vaccinated. That is what the data shows. Again, conversations are happening between the Department of Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science and the Department of Health on that this week. We will wait for the advice that might come from that.

On the Senator’s final question of informing public policy, academic freedom as a concept is a double-edged sword. If we declare and defend it, then we have to allow what comes out of it. On the other hand, what is stated must be evidence-based. If it is not clear and cogent, it needs to be challenged. That needs to be done openly and honestly.