Pat Buckley (Cork East, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

I thank the witnesses. Much has been covered. I want to go back over a few issues. We are having a conversation about conditions in direct provision. I have spoken to Mr. Henderson and a few of the people who were outside yesterday. Let us be honest. The majority of these people come from very bad situations. They come here hoping for sanctuary. We have a reputation of being an open and welcoming society. There is still a perception that these people are free loaders who should not be coming here. We also hear all these horrific stories of overcrowding and what the witnesses have covered today.

The witnesses spoke about strategies and White Papers. I have seen too many of them in the short few years I have been a Deputy. I am speaking about implementation. I am a massive fan of NGOs. Believe it or not, they are one of my favourite groups. We need to get the information out to the general public on how these people came to be here and what were their options in their own countries. When we educate people and give them the key to opening up to people, they might understand why they are here. They might be more not so much sympathetic but empathetic to the fact we should not be criticising these people but supporting them.

When we sit down and have a conversation with somebody, we learn from them and they learn from us. I am a massive fan of integration. We have a food festival every year - bar the Covid years - in Midleton. We bring all the nationalities that have come through the asylum process and they show off their national foods. The way Irish people interact with them on these two days is absolutely amazing. People make friendships and understand each other's culture. To get the information out, how do we educate people who are uneducated when it comes to knowing what is happening? They then make a judgment without having proper information.

A point that was touched on was deaths and suicides and how suicides are reported. I am very curious about this. We have a similar issue in the prison service. Bodies are removed from the prison and taken to the coroner's office. In the same way, the bodies are no longer in the centre but in the coroner's office. This is where the suicide is determined. How do we get positive figures?

Several weeks ago, the Ombudsman for Children came before the committee. He was very critical but very honest about what is happening. The Doras report does not spare much either. It shows the position and that is the way it should be. We keep speaking about things that are broken but nobody wants to fix them. Is it an issue with money? Is there European money we can access?

While I say all of this I have to be conscious that some people, because they are not educated enough, do not want these people in their communities. However, as the witnesses have mentioned, many of them are qualified doctors, dentists and engineers. Others are very badly traumatised and need help. Mental health services were mentioned. Mainstream mental health services are diabolical so I do not know how we will get anything into these centres.

The witnesses referred to places not being fit for purpose. It is amazing that other systems, such as the HSE, can deal with such an issue in months. In my town, we have the Owenacurra health centre. It is not fit for purpose so it is going to be shut down in October, which is pretty fast. All of the people will be moved out and the services will be relocated. This can be done. We do not want this to happen in our town but I am giving it as an example of how quickly things can be done.

I have one simple question for Dr. Lannon and Mr. Henderson. On a scale of one to ten, if they had to be totally honest, with one being very good and ten being absolutely diabolical, when it comes to providing the services for the most vulnerable, how bad is it?