Pat Buckley (Cork East, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

I thank the Acting Chairman. I will be very brief because time is short. All of us have meetings after meetings for a meeting about a meeting before we go to the meeting to talk about that meeting. Anyway, much has already been raised but there are some main issues that keep coming up. I love our guests' frankness about it because I am black and blue in the face from listening to Government parties say over the last few years that we have a problem with recruitment. We know we have a problem with recruitment because they make it too difficult to qualify. A while ago Ms Dillon mentioned the assistant psychologists and how around 2017 or 2018, or maybe later, the Government promised to employ 114 assistant psychologists. From my information at the time, when I was sitting on a different committee, they did not do any psychology. They did not do any assisting. The only assistance there was was wetting envelopes to send out appointment consolations. I know of people who left the service over that and got into the Prison Service and who feel more appreciated there. I can see Ms Thomas and Mr. O'Flaherty's frustration. When we get involved with these specific topics, 99% of the time it is because we have had some connection to it be that emotionally, personally or through friends or whatever. I have been listening and it was mentioned that we do not have a national lead. Having listened to the statements our guests from CARE have made, no matter how passionate I was, there is not a hope in hell that I would be seriously thinking about going into this as a profession because there are so many barriers. I have no problem saying it. I have used this line before but as a penance you would actually have a better chance of emptying the Red Sea with a bucket with no arse in it. It just cannot be done. I am being honest here.

It is debates like this which need to be aired, and aired publicly. I am thinking of what Ms Cummins said about things being outside the box. I can remember that less than ten years ago, if you mentioned mental health you were shut down straight away. You had something that was contagious and if you spoke about it you were putting ideas into somebody else's head. Now you can address it through social media, radio and so on. Our guests are right that we must reach out to the younger generation but we must also listen to them. That is the problem. We are not peer-led in this country. We will tell people what we think is best for them instead of saying we should shut up for a second and ask people what they think would be best. That is what we have lost in society. I do not envy our guests. I am not going to quiz them on anything because a lot of the stuff has been covered. However, I encourage every one of them to not let this go, even if it means thinking outside the box. I am absolutely dumbfounded. I knew it was bad as far as education and trying to qualify for anything like this is concerned but there are so many preventative barriers it is just beyond belief. I was a member of the Joint Committee on the Future of Mental Health Care a number of years ago. We have talked about funding but there is also massive wastage of funding.

More than €1 billion was spent on mental health services in 2017 to 2018, but the HSE could not tell us where it had been spent. We try to balance resources.

Mr. O'Flaherty referred to people going to England or elsewhere. They are not valued here. These are services and I am black and blue listening to the HSE talking about problems with recruitment and retention. It will not train or pay people yet still expects them to stay and then scratches its head wondering where it is going wrong.

I used to be our spokesperson on mental health. Deputy Ward has taken over, but it is still my passion. If the committee can assist the witnesses in any way, they should not hesitate to contact us. When people like them get together, they have a bigger and better voice. Could they work in collaboration with Ms Cummins, Ms Reynolds and others to push this? It should be a national issue. I suspect that, from next March onwards, we will see a tsunami of mental health problems and mental health-related problems due to anxiety, stress and depression. They are just the little firelighters. There will be knock-on effects on families, friends and so on.

I do not envy the witnesses. I thank the Acting Chairman for his patience. I thank the witnesses, including for their honesty. We have been at this for a long time. The most important issue is that we must get the message out that some people cannot qualify in this country. Let it be written in black and white that people can buzz off if they think others will break their backs. People are not expected to feed their families for free, so why should they work for free? We are told that there is a recruitment problem when we are not even backing their training. People can go across the water to the NHS. It might not be perfect, but at least it has joined-up thinking, a plan and a bit of openness, empathy and understanding. It also has a common sense approach. A major issue in this country is that there is no common sense. People protect their own patches and do not like others getting on better than them. Instead, people should work collectively. The main issue is patient safety.

The greatest reward in life is to help someone, regardless of what with or in which profession, and to be told "Thanks". It cannot be taken to a bank to be cashed, but a person can hold onto it for as long as possible. It is well worth the effort. The witnesses should keep going with what they are doing. If we can assist them in any way, they should not hesitate to contact us. I wish them well and the best of luck. I hope that, the next time we are speaking at a meeting of this committee, we will not be giving out about X, Y and Z, something will have moved forward and there will have been more of a positive outcome. I am not optimistic, though. I am a realist. I am angry, although I am toning it down. I normally raise my voice much more than this. I am angry for the likes of the witnesses, who are passionate about this matter but who have been pulled and dragged through muck for five or ten years and for whom muck is their thanks. I would go away to a different profession, write to the relevant Minister and say that I was sorry, I tried, the Minister did not give me help and I was out of here.