Mr. Stuart Hughes:

To reassure members, I confirm that Mr. Carlin and I have been in a room together many times, just not often in the past 18 months, unfortunately. I agree with what he said. Some members of Belfast City Council are attending the meeting. They will not thank me for saying it, but one of my biggest frustrations with councils is when councillors try to turn councils into mini-Stormonts and we have to debate every issue under the sun. It just poisons our politics even more. What is important at a council level is working together and delivering for people. Our council is involved in some exciting projects. Councils were reorganised in Northern Ireland in 2014. There is still a Lisburn-Castlereagh split on our council and a back and forth as a result. It requires people to be more geographically aligned than they are party aligned on some issues, which is an interesting development. That work happens on a daily basis. There are things being delivered for people.

We need to be careful around the three-stranded approach of the agreement. We must ensure that we go back to first principles. The concern of any unionist will always be that the strand 1 issues are for the people of Northern Ireland. The issue we have currently with forums, or whatever it is, is that it is all framed in the narrative around the unity debate. That is where the danger lies from a unionist perspective. I would also like to point out that there are bodies that exist, the North-South Ministerial Council, for example, which are not functioning the way they should be. I also wish to highlight that North-South co-operation has to work both ways. There has been frustration in Northern Ireland during the pandemic, which was something that none of us ever saw coming, that, frankly, some of that co-operation has not been there at times. It is the case in respect of the issues around passenger locator forms, the sharing of data and the hoops that had to be jumped through for that to happen. If some of the measures that were brought in relating to travel restrictions were introduced in Northern Ireland, they would not have been accepted by politicians in the Republic.

I caution that we have work to do. Politicians have to set the example. That leadership starts at ministerial level. If people turn on the television news and see politicians not being able to agree on issues in times when they should 100% be in agreement, that sets the tone for everything else that follows. I accept that certain people want to frame all things North-South on a constitutional basis. Bodies that exist can be used for engagement and we need to make more of. We should do that. We will not shy away from talking to people. However, we also have to respect the other relationships within Northern Ireland and east-west, which are under increasing threat currently, according to the views of many unionists. That is critical for us all moving forward. We need to get back to the first principles to begin with and move from there. Now is not the time to make giant leaps. Relationships are in a fragile state.

We need to get back to basics in that regard. Part of the reason I am attending this meeting is to speak, listen and get the views of committee members. That is what we need to do. I appreciate that significant work was done behind the scenes by Irish Governments over many years and there were many conversations. As a unionist and looking to the South and to Dublin, I know people who understand Northern Ireland and the fragility of those relationships but there are others who simply do not understand that or, frankly, do not care about it. If they did, they would not have said or done some of the things they have said or done. We all have to be careful with the language we use. There is a lot of focus on unionists at the moment and the rhetoric that some unionists may be using. That works both ways. It is about getting back to first principles and having those conversations, which do not need to be publicised or broadcast, because there are opportunities. People will speak and listen. Everyone in the unionist community in Northern Ireland to whom I have spoken wants better for the people. They want better education, better jobs and better housing. We cannot frame everything simply on a North-South basis within the constitutional-----