Marc Ó Cathasaigh (Waterford, Green Party) | Oireachtas source

I thank the Cathaoirleach. There may be some repetition, given that Senator Malcolm Byrne, in getting the first bite at the cherry, probably asked the most pertinent questions. If there is repetition, perhaps we can use the time to expand a little on those discussions.

My first question concerns the relationship between the HEA and the Department, and the need to distinguish between the two bodies. I have a slight nagging concern and I might use the HSE and the Department of Health as an analogy. My worry is about accountability to the Dáil. The Department of Health is often used as a distancing device, whereby it is difficult for us to ask politicians to have a line of sight to issues within the HSE that might worry us. I am concerned that creating that distinction between the HEA and the Department, which I accept is necessary, might make the body less accountable to the Dáil.

Turning to the borrowing framework, I am a Deputy who represents Waterford and the south east, so a recurring issue for me relates to the ability of the institutes of technology to access borrowing in the same way as universities. Will that follow through to the technological university system?

The institutes of technology, and I hope the technological universities, will be able to work closely with industry. This goes to the issue of autonomy we talked about. The agility and the responsiveness in courses offered at the institutes of technology will, I hope, continue through to the technological universities and be maintained. There appears to be a tension between Councillor Hoade's position regarding representatives on governing bodies and what Dr. Ryan argued for, that is, a greater emphasis on competencies. If that tension is there - I do not mean to stoke any problems or anything like that - it is probably best that we name it and speak specifically to that point. Councillor Hoade strongly put the argument for the representative element, so I would like to hear the counterpoint from the competency point of view in the context of the governing bodies.