Mr. Francie Molloy:

I thank the Chairman. I also thank the Minister for his attendance and participation. I pay tribute to the way he has managed the process to date and the fact that he has given recognition to the victims and taken their concerns on board. That has been a good response and victims have recognised that right across the board. Even the Minister's answers have indicated that he understands, probably better than some, the issues that are actually being raised by the families and victims who want to get them resolved. The Ballymurphy case is very typical but unfortunately it is not the only case right across the North.

Perhaps the Minister has read it but I will recommend Anne Cadwallader's book, Lethal Allies: British Collusion in Ireland, which highlights the amount of cases of victims right across the North, where the very clear indication is of collusion between state forces, loyalists and others within the agencies that are involved.

There are 120 victims right across what is termed the "murder triangle". I live in that area. My field runs down to what was the centre of Bond's plantation or the Argory. Certainly, around this part of the country, the fears that were in people over those years are still there because they have not seen any resolution of the issue. It would be beneficial if at some stage the Minister was able to visit and bring together a number of those families to let them speak for themselves on the issue. Some of them already have. I believe it is very important at present that they do not feel left out, however. That figure of 120 is quite a sizeable number of people within that murder triangle, which takes in Glengannon, Portadown, Armagh and around that particular area.

Even when we look at the Dublin and Monaghan bombings, there was a link into that murder triangle for those who carried out that bombing. Sometimes it comes across that the Glenanne gang was the only group that was actually carrying out a lot of these murders. I think that is a mistake. We might look at the number of victims across the area, certainly even along the lines of the Devlins and the different families and local people who were involved. Patricia Devlin highlighted the circumstances around that recently and it is very important.

When we are dealing with this in the Stormont House Agreement, it is important that we keep to the core principles. There were concerns from the families, after the meeting between the British and Irish Cabinets, that a change was happening and that Stormont House was being set aside. They need reassurance that we are starting a new discussion. The new discussion can be dangerous, however. It appears to families that the British Government is just delaying and procrastinating to try to drag out the whole process but giving no commitment to actually delivering on it.

It would be very important to remember, as Senator Currie said, that the British Government is not neutral in this. Its representatives are actors and are part and parcel of it, for instance, its agents and soldiers. The state itself was actually part and parcel of removing people. The Pat Finucane case is probably one of the best examples but many others in different areas have a similar line. I do not believe the British Government should be let off the hook in that regard or portray itself as neutral within it. Unfortunately, we have seen so many broken promises from the British Government, including the Good Friday Agreement, which has not been fully implemented.

They seem to make agreements, break them and then just move on to the next stage. I will say fair play that Ireland is trying to confront them. I am of the view that we must move to a situation where we need to get answers to the question: "Are you going to live up to the commitment made or are you not?" We need to get that.

I welcome the point made by the Minister regarding the Irish Government. There was some concern still that the Irish Government was in possession of papers on the Glenanne gang, the Dublin and Monaghan bombings and cross-Border raids that happened, and that there would still be some documentation there. It would be good if it was possible to move along from this stand-off. I accept the point the Minister has made that he has stood up to the British Government. That is good and welcome. The stand-off sometimes has to happen in order to move things along and get truth and justice for the victims. I thank the Minister very much for everything so far. When we go back into the discussion on the Stormont House Agreement, however, it has to be to protect the agreement and not to weaken it, and not to take away the role of victims or the concept of justice for the victims.