Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I understand Dr. Farry's concerns. Many of us know there is a lot of pressure in the British political system at Westminster to ensure that people who served in Northern Ireland do not end up being pulled through a court system. We need to make sure that what is motivating this process is not pressure coming from a different place, if you like, and is rather a pressure on us all to do what is right for Northern Ireland. I promise that is my motivation. There is no way that the Irish Government is in this process to legitimise unilateral action that is somehow explained on the basis of the British Government saying we have gone through a consultation process, cannot get agreement on Northern Ireland because it is so divided and Westminster just needs to legislate and move this process forward. That narrative could develop. The narrative has almost taken hold that there is no point in even going through another process of consultation and legislation should be drafted anyway to follow through on commitments that were made in an election manifesto or whatever. That cannot be the motivation here. That is why we have said to the British Government that we will work with it in trying to convene a genuine process of consultation to listen to parties and victims groups. We will listen if the British Government outlines that it has a different perspective and believes it can add to the legacy process by making amendments or changes to the Stormont House Agreement, or making new proposals. Let us hear them, discuss them, dissect them and test them in terms of the purpose of what we are trying to achieve, which is truth, justice and reconciliation. That is how we are approaching this process. I hope that it will not result in a clash, a stand-off and a failure to progress because, to be honest, we have had enough of that. Victims families deserve better than that. We are approaching this on the basis of partnership with the British Government. We are approaching it on the basis of reaching out, working with parties and victims groups to try to find a way forward that is acceptable to the British Government, although it may have to compromise, and the Irish Government.

It may have to compromise but it could accept that we could accept. From our perspective, certainly at the outset of this, it is very important that there is a justice element to any outcome. It is very hard to see how an Irish Government could support an outcome that does not give families the right to pursue justice in the courts if they want to, and certainly if there is a case file that makes that credible.

On a personal basis, hopefully Dr. Farry knows my form well enough at this stage. I am not shy of having an argument even if it is with the British Government. I want close and good relationships with the British Government but that does not mean that we simply accept its perspective and move forward on that basis. We have a different perspective on this issue on the outset of these discussions but we are willing to participate in an effort to try to find a compromise position, if necessary, that can move us forward. I believe only so much compromise is possible, however, from the principles of Stormont House and obviously the structures that were committed to on that basis.

I thank Dr. Farry for his recognition of the protocol. Sometimes when I read the British media, it is almost as if it does not want to report on good news when it comes to the protocol or the European Union. That is why I spoke to the BBC this morning. Yesterday was a very important day for Northern Ireland. It was the first time that both sides agreed to quite a significant package of flexibilities on the basis of taking a pragmatic approach towards problems that have surfaced because of the protocol. The problems are ultimately because of Brexit but they have surfaced because of the implementation of the protocol, which is trying to manage the disruption of Brexit.

The grace period for prepared meats has been extended to the end of September on the ask of the British Government, which received a positive response. That is a much better outcome than taking unilateral action and triggering an illegal response leading to a further breakdown of trust and so on.

The EU wanted to go beyond that, however. It said it had been working on a whole range of other things and wanted to reassure people in Northern Ireland that the supply of medicines was not going to be a problem from Great Britain, for instance, generic medicines coming into Northern Ireland through the NHS system dealing with certifications systems that would otherwise be a problem. The EU is actually willing to change European law to make sure Northern Ireland does not have concerns and anxiety around access to medicines. That is appropriate, particularly in the context of the pandemic.

It has also done niche things like making sure guide dogs can travel between GB and Northern Ireland. It sounds like a small thing but I recall Mr. Michael Gove MP raising this issue with me last January because it is highly emotive. Likewise, with regard to the tagging of animals, the EU is effectively facilitating animals being taken to shows in Scotland and coming back into Northern Ireland and so on. Rather than having to have an identification and tagging system every time the animal moves, a system is now in place that recognises and can allow the free movement of animals. These are practical, sensible issues that are being resolved.

Ultimately, the EU said that it is up for a serious discussion around a common approach towards veterinary standards. As I previously said to Dr. Farry, if we could get a sanitary and phytosanitary, SPS, agreement between both sides in terms of a common approach towards standards, we could dramatically reduce the numbers of checks on imports in Larne and Belfast by up to 80% in terms of animal products. Surely that is something worth pursuing.

Unfortunately, some of the commentary on that from the British side has not been overly positive. It comes back to what is almost a conspiracy theory that the EU wants to control the UK. It does not. It simply wants to try to maintain a positive, sensitive relationship that removes unnecessary barriers to trade and takes a common approach towards high standards in food safety. Hopefully, therefore, we will be able to make some progress on some of those issues.

As I said, any time Dr. Farry wants to get an Irish Government or European Commission perspective, he should feel free to pick up the telephone at any stage. We are trying to find ways forward on some of these delicate questions in order that we can get through the summer and out the other side with a protocol that becomes less controversial and is seen as a technical trading arrangement as opposed to a political totem, which is what some people see it as.