Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I welcome the witnesses this morning. This is an interesting and fundamental part of the economic conversation that must take place. I heard some things in the initial statement that I was pleased to hear. We have a rapidly expanding population and we must plan for that. It is no good planning for it in five or ten years from now; we need to plan for it now and put in place the necessary measures. For instance, in the 1980s we struggled to have 1 million people at work in the country. We can readily get 2 million at work now. That is of great importance to the economy and our ability to fund the level of services that we need for the future.

Deputy Canney made a number of important interventions. I do not think we would fare well if an evaluation was done of the effectiveness of our system in terms of procurement and processing various projects from A to Z in the shortest possible time with maximum benefit to the taxpayer. Some projects have gone on for years and various changes have taken place. If we keep going on like that in this country, we will go on that way forever. We will have a lot of things that we should have done that we did not do and we will suffer the consequences. Mr. Downes made reference to those but I do not think he went as far as I would have gone. From experience in a Department, if you want to do something, you do it now, not in five years’ time, because by then you are gone out of there and somebody else will or will not do it and may have a different set of emphases, which will again change the whole plan. The most essential issues at the present time are, first, housing, as well as health, education and infrastructure. How effective we are in delivering those for the country will determine the extent of our economic success and our ability to ensure that we can provide jobs for our own people, as and when they require them in the future. That is going to be hugely important.

I do not think we are doing that at present. For instance, Deputy Canney referred to Irish Water. We know that it has a funding shortfall and that needs to be addressed. On the one hand, we all said in this country that water is free and that it should be free for everybody. The United Nations said everybody has the right to water. I am not a brave enough soldier to come out and say that perhaps we should have done it differently. Perhaps we should, and we will pay a price for that in the future. If Irish Water is to do the job it is supposed to do, it will need an avenue of funding that does not exist at present.

Regarding housing, I spoke with a very prominent person in this country 20-odd years ago. I then predicted that the biggest issue to face this country in the future would be housing. How was I able to make that assessment 20 years ago? Did I have evidence? I had. I was working with the demand on the ground, the number of people that were presenting and who had chosen to stay in the country rather than emigrate. One of the issues that must be factored in is that emigration is not as attractive as it used to be because we can provide at home jobs that are as valuable, modern and up to date as anywhere on the globe, and because of that there is a greater demand for homes. We must face that. There are those who say they do not want any more people coming to this country and that we have enough people here. They say Ireland is for the Irish and all of that. I do not accept that. On the face of the globe, people move in different directions at different times. We must be open to that. We can provide for ourselves and them, to the benefit of the economy and all of our people, regardless. We must do that in a more meaningful way.

Health is an area where the population growth is of critical importance. I do not think that we ever realised that we would have 2 million people working in this country. We would not while there was emigration but we must factor in that emigration is no longer as attractive as it was. I again refer to what Deputy Canney said. I was on the previous health committee for the past five years. We had a long debate about the national children's hospital. If one were to ask any politician or a member of the public what is the problem with the children's hospital, they would say it has gone way over cost. It has not. It never went over cost, because there was no costing. The only costing that ever came was based on the quantity surveyor's report and is the current one of €1.8 billion. What is being done at present is that it is being used to sabotage the system by groups of people who did not want it there in the first place but wanted it somewhere else. The reason that it took so long to provide the national children's hospital is because nobody would agree on where it should be located. That is strange but it is not a conclusion; it is a fact. That continues to be the case. I hope we do not go on with the new national maternity hospital to the same extent, length and result, because if we do, it will never happen. We will be talking about it in the next century. Modernisation is required in the health services in line with the growing requirements of a much bigger population. There is a requirement for higher standards and higher outputs. We must recognise that and keep it in mind.

Infrastructure must grow. I see Deputy Boyd Barrett smiling. I do not wish to encourage him and he does not require any encouragement either. We need to come of age in terms of the delivery of services to the public. If we do not do that, we are going to be condemned and blamed, rightly so. We talk to a great extent about working from home and that will be taken up to a certain extent but it is not the answer to any of our problems. Working through technology hubs does provide an answer because it combines two aspects of what we require. It brings to the fore the collegiality of the workforce where people like to mingle, mix, talk and socialise in the course of their work. Digital hubs can definitely do that and workers can produce as effectively as if they were working in the original workplace.

I could go on forever, but you will be glad to know, Madam Chair, I do not intend to. There are many issues that need to be addressed as a matter of urgency. Deputy Canney made reference to the various obstacles and the structures that are put in the way. Perhaps some of those horses should have fallen earlier, but I worry that if we were to adopt that course of action, we would end up going nowhere and we would not do anything. We could come to a conclusion and justify it on the basis that it might not have been a good thing to do, that perhaps we could not afford it or that we should do something else with the money.

I wish to emphasise that point by way of a concluding example. In 1986 I happened to be on a parliamentary visit to Germany. We were in a bad state in this country, employment-wise, at that time. There was a constituent well placed in the Mercedes corporation in Stuttgart where 20,000 people were employed.

Having gone through the place, the extent to which the investment in that area had a ripple-like effect throughout the region was obvious to everybody. That big anchor tenant in the area was of enormous benefit. We had not experienced that in this country, certainly in the midlands or in our area at that time. We have had more of them in the meantime. We need foreign direct investment along with indigenous investment. We need our infrastructure upgraded and improved. We need to bring them along together, not deciding that we can do them at some stage in the future, by which time our market will have changed and our indigenous investors will have gone elsewhere.

I am looking forward to the debate. If we want something done in a Department, we need to take the action today because it will surely take three or four years before it will happen. I only mention this; I do not accept it. We have come to the stage where it is generally accepted that everybody looks at a particular proposal or plan and says it will take four or five years. When does it ever start? We have gone crazy on that kind of thing. After being irresponsible, we have become so careful about everything that the only way forward is to do nothing. We cannot go there.