Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour) | Oireachtas source

I welcome Mr. Tony Murphy and his team. People often talk about the dry work of auditors. I am new to this committee. My experience is at the other side of the table, as Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform. I would have been looking at ways to spend money in accordance with rules and trying to find mechanisms to do that. It will not surprise the witnesses that my questions will centre around that perspective. I was responsible for cohesion, INTERREG and PEACE, and co-chaired the special EU programme bodies for five years. In all our interactions, we always had to be concerned about the perspective of the Court of Auditors and the view on the expenditure of European funds in particular. I want to talk to the witnesses about the flexibilities, as they see them, and how the Court of Auditors applies them, especially with the new social challenges. Clearly, the fiscal rules that were holy writ for a long time, by which we were in many cases nailed to the wall, as others were, have evaporated with the pandemic. What was not doable is now doable, with absolute justification. My concern is that this will change back to old habits and that we will be faced with serious social and economic challenges post pandemic. Will we have the flexibilities to deal with that or not? The witnesses might say that it is an entirely political decision but I would be interested in their perspective on it as much as they can give it.

The biggest social challenge for us prior to the pandemic was the housing crisis. We have to provide a significant number of social and affordable houses in this country. What is the definition of a service of "general economic interest", which is excluded from general state aid rules? There seems to be a divergence of views of how that is applied across the Union and the degree of flexibility. I am anxious that it would be clear that investment in social and affordable housing, which is a social imperative for us, would be excluded from state aid rules and would be a service of general economic interest.

The fiscal rules generally have been set aside for the pandemic. Will that flexibility be maintained or will there be a reaction to the level of indebtedness that the Union has? There was always a morbid fear of collective borrowing in Germany, in all my interactions over the years, and it did not want to mutualise debt. We have overcome that. It is an important underpinning of solidarity across the Union. Do the witnesses think that will be maintained and sustained into the future?