Mr. Neil McDonnell:

We are not in disagreement with Deputy Murphy on that. What we are saying is we do have one of the lowest rates in Europe. That is not contested. We are ad idemon that, so let us not make differences where we seek to make differences. One of the interesting factors with our social insurance system is that while we have a low rate of deduction, we also have a very low rate of entitlement and those entitlements are means tested. If we go back some years, there used to be something called the income cap. I will not comment on the Deputy's age, but he may not remember it. In recognition of the fact that benefits were capped, there was a €50,000 cap on employees' PRSI. It went to €75,000 and then it was eliminated altogether. There is no cap on employers' PRSI. Albeit PRSI is at rates that are a European low, we do not have universal access to healthcare and our benefits are all capped, so jobseeker's benefit, for example, has a hard cap on it. I note this is under consideration and it will be among the issues considered by the welfare and taxation commission. Thankfully, one of the good things to come out of the pandemic is that we are talking about social insurance now, so one will get a benefit as a percentage of one's salary rather than as €203 a week.

If the Government decides it wants to put employers' PRSI to 30%, that is an entirely valid output and consideration from the Legislature. What we are saying is that if that happens, the ability of employers to employ labour will decrease commensurately. The other point is that it would disproportionately affect the low-skilled and the no-skilled. It would simply put up the cost of labour. The Government must put employers' PRSI at whatever rate it thinks is appropriate. It will not get an intellectual or moral pushback from us. We are just saying that if one has a business that delivers a service or manufactures a good, in SMEs the cost of labour can be up to 86%. If the Government severely impacts the cost of labour, then it will impact the ability of the business to sell. That is all.