Mr. Neil McDonnell:

There is quite a lot there. On the viability supports, I appreciate this is a very difficult issue and it is sectoral. Let us understand that some sectors have actually done better during this period. For example, the pharmaceutical and medical sectors and quite a lot of our multinational sector have done better. Getting visibility on this is going to be difficult. One thing that might be possible is perhaps, in some of those troubled areas, to look at the equivalent of the paycheck protection program, PPP, that was tried in the United States, so that there might be an element of debt forgiveness for some businesses that maintained their workforces, for example. That was quite popular in the United States.

We acknowledge that the supports have to taper. I hope there would not be a difference between us and, say, ICTU in terms of tapering the PUP. For example, one thing that could be done in order not to discourage people from going back to work is to apply the earnings allowance that applies to the self-employed. Perhaps we could look at giving that to people so they would not be discouraged from going back to work and they could make some earnings without disqualifying themselves from the PUP.

On the vaccination issue, I have to be very careful because a complaint has gone to the Legal Services Regulatory Authority, LSRA, in regard to a particular blog or advertisement from a solicitor. What I will say is that, in particular sectors where social distancing is very difficult to maintain, such as grooming and retail, on the one hand, a minority of staff are saying, “I am not getting vaccinated for reason X”, whatever it is, and other members of staff are saying, “I am not going to work with an unvaccinated colleague.” The employers, unfortunately, have been left high and dry on this. On the one hand, they are at risk from the Health and Safety Authority, HSA, or from a complaint going in to the workplace surveillance unit in Kilkenny if they do not act on this. On the other hand, they are dealing with the possibility that if they attempt to intervene in this area, a worker complaint could go in to the Workplace Relations Commission. In addition, committee members do not need me to tell them there are a number of solicitors who are very active in this area. Employers, unfortunately, feel they have been left to manage this issue in a complete grey area, and they are asking for some degree of certainty on this.