Ms Mairead McGuinness:

I thank the Senator for his kind remarks. It is a great opportunity for me to be able to share some thoughts with him this morning.

I will try and deal with the rule of origin in some depth because it was an issue across colleagues. As the Senator will be aware, the rules of origin exist because it is a way of making sure that our trading partners understand that the products we are producing comply with specific rules. On the dairy and whiskey sectors, I read the transcripts yesterday. I have also met them previously and I understand the dilemma. Let us park that to the wider issue of rules of origin.

If there were to be changes, we need to be mindful that that might have other consequences that might not suit us. Clearly, we have a specific interest in this issue but I would say here, and to the point that Senator Joe O'Reilly raised with me where he was concerned at my remarks, that what I am trying to be is frank and clear that as of now we are not renegotiating the rules of origin but that does not mean that the Senator in his capacity should not keep raising these issues and explaining the sensitivities of them, and see can we find solutions. What I would see as the priority at the moment is to focus on implementing the TCA and the withdrawal agreement, and then there will be these other issues that arise. I know it is very sensitive. The Senator named Lakeland Dairies. I know this is a real issue because dairy cows and milk flow across that invisible border and Brexit has sundered that to some extent. Brexit has caused the problems now for us to look at rules of origin. What I am saying is, and I know Senator Joe O'Reilly was disappointed by my answer, sometimes it is better to be clear and truthful than to be fudging and say we can change these overnight. It is more complex than that. The committee has a capacity and a duty to make sure these issues are fully debated and understood. They may be dealt with in time but the priority now is focusing on implementation.

In relation to dialogue, this is a huge point. I did not get to see the programme last night but I will watch it. Dialogue is about talking and listening. In politics, we know that sometimes the listening bit is more important and the silences are better sometimes than the words. The EU is based on dialogue. A day has not gone by here or when I was in the parliament that there was not a disagreement about something but we did not walk away and slam the door. We worked around words, there was give and take, and we sorted things out.

If anything, what Brexit shows me is the dangers posed by a fragmentation of the European Union. I am talking about the one nation of Great Britain and Northern Ireland wanting to be great, sovereign, free and independent but almost suggesting that the formal and informal contacts that the EU has given us are not as good as being able to stand up on one's own two feet. I take a very different view but that is maybe because I come from a smaller member state. Whatever the difficulties that we have had over time with the European Union we have a voice and we can use it for good or ill.

The biggest regrets that I have with Brexit are as follows. First, the last five years have turned us a little grey if I were to show my true colours. Second, Brexit has pulled apart the capacity for informal and formal engagement with the United Kingdom but it has made us set up an enormous architecture of a partnership council that is comprised of over 16 specialist committees. We have replaced one set of bureaucracy, which the UK would refer to, with a completely new set of bureaucracy but dialogue is important and so is listening.