Ms Sadhbh O'Neill:

In regard to just transition and dialogue, there is an important recommendation in the Ag Climatise document. It is the very last recommendation - action No. 29, if I recall correctly - and I see no reason it cannot be enacted immediately. It is a commitment to engaging in a stakeholder dialogue between scientists, representatives of the farming community and environmental interests, in conjunction with other stakeholders. This is a very welcome development because, to date, it has been very difficult for environmental interests, including environmental scientists, to get a foot in the door when it comes to the conversation about agriculture. We have been somewhat excluded and our efforts to engage have been difficult. This would be a very welcome initiative and it is entirely up to the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine to get the ball rolling. I certainly think it would be a helpful initiative.

The Chairman's question about carbon leakage is one that comes up regularly. I refer to the point that is made very succinctly by the Climate Change Advisory Council in its 2019 review:

The extent to which leakage may occur is unclear and dependent on multiple factors, including international trade agreements, the carbon footprint of production in other countries and [crucially] their own commitments to emission reductions.

In the context of all countries having to step up under the Paris Agreement, it is quite difficult to estimate the extent of the problem in advance and what the effect will be if Ireland were to act a little more quickly than other countries to reduce emissions in agriculture, for example. Other countries make the same claims about their pet industries. Whether it is shoe or car manufacturing, steel or cement, every country seeks to protect its key industries. Increasingly, there is a global effort to look at particular commodities that are traded globally. I do not expect there will be any escape clause for any industry. Even the steel, cement and car industries are coming under much closer scrutiny, not just by governments and regulators but also by shareholders. I expect that will also happen in the case of agriculture.