Oireachtas Joint and Select Committees

Wednesday, 9 June 2021

Select Committee on Communications, Climate Action and Environment

Climate Action and Low Carbon Development (Amendment) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (Resumed)

Photo of Denis NaughtenDenis Naughten (Roscommon-Galway, Independent) | Oireachtas source

I wish to discuss my amendments Nos. 159, 163 and 164. Amendment No. 165 is related. I know it is not grouped with the other amendments. I will withdraw amendment No. 165. I will speak to the whole lot together.

This comes back to the argument we had earlier about carbon budgets. While there may be some justification for the Minister of State's argument on the carbon budgets, I believe it is fundamentally wrong that we have no approval process whatsoever for the sectoral emissions ceilings that are going to be set for each part of government in each Department.

I do not agree with the principle of sectoral emissions ceilings. I fully understand the reason for it, which comes back to the point of principle that Ministers need to be held accountable. As someone who was in the role prior to the current Minister, Deputy Eamon Ryan, and the previous Minister, Deputy Bruton, I know how frustrating it was when I did not have the leverage available to me that is provided for in this legislation. I do not disagree with the principle of what is being set out in the legislation; where I disagree fundamentally is that these should be presented just like an Estimates process is presented to the sectoral committee for approval. It comes back to the fundamental point I made at the outset, that it is going to be a significant challenge to reach a 51% reduction in heating and transport. In fairness, the members of this committee have made that admission already. The committee introduced a very worthwhile document last week on transport emissions, but only set out to reduce them by 51%. If we set out a 51% reduction in transport, and a similar reduction in heating, which would be monumental achievements if we could achieve them by 2030, then that would put a massive challenge on to agriculture where it is much harder to make change and where the technology in that regard does not yet exist. We must be honest: realistically, the only way that can be achieved is through substantial reductions in herd numbers.

Regardless of where the end result is, those sectoral targets should be presented to the Dáil for approval via the sectoral committees. The Minister for Transport should come before the transport committee and say what the target is, whether it is 51% or 70% up to 2030, and outline how he or she intends to get to that. Naturally enough, that will have to chop and change as technology develops and as the returns come back in terms of the emissions profile. That can be reviewed on an ongoing basis, but the overall target should be approved by the sectoral transport committee. The same should happen for heating targets with the energy committee or the climate committee and for agriculture targets with the agriculture committee. The Minister of the day should come in and explain the logic and reasoning for the targets and how he or she expects to achieve them. This cannot be done without recourse to Dáil Éireann.

The amendments I have tabled are very simple. They ensure there would have to be an approval process whereby Dáil Éireann must approve the sectoral emissions ceilings across the board, just like the current Estimates process for finances. Our emissions ceilings will have a far greater impact than even the Estimates process, yet there is no ratification process envisaged for them. There will be consultation and discussions with the sectoral committees, advice will be sought from the CCAC and there will be engagement with the public on this, but ultimately it should be down to Dáil Éireann to agree the objectives.

It is not just to tie the Minister of the day into that process, but it is also important to tie in subsequent Ministers. Deputy Bruton knows that I argued very strongly in the committee for the establishment of Sláintecare because the difficulty was that when a new Minister sat down on his or her rear end in the Department of Health, he or she could have a new policy approach to deliver across the health service with no buy-in across the political spectrum for it. Thankfully, we now have Sláintecare. We need the same type of political buy-in regardless of who the Minister of the day is, but that can only happen with a ratification process that incorporates Dáil Éireann. I urge the Minister of State to accept this series of amendments.

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