Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

We could fill the convention centre, which is a big place, with reports and we have legislation but it is not being enforced. One of the things that we see now is that it is easy enough to get people to back legislation but it is not as easy to get them to make sure it is implemented.

As has been well outlined here today, the simple fact is that permanent, transient or Traveller-specific housing is not being provided. What I find fascinating when people do not want things is that they never oppose the thing in principle. They always say that the site is not suitable, that it is not the appropriate time or something else is not appropriate and that it is really for the good of the people that they are opposing whatever they opposing. The reality is that there is no worthwhile accommodation being provided for Travellers, certainly in the city of Galway, although the county is better, and any time one tries to get a Part 8 it seems to run into the sand. As has been pointed out, the CEOs do not overrule the councils. The CEOs have emergency powers to do so but are just not doing so. Not only are the councils not fulfilling their duty, they are thumbing their nose at the Oireachtas, at the law, and at their moral obligations as are the CEOs, effectively, by not swiftly overruling when there is inaction.

As a politician, as a democrat and as somebody who believes in the democratic process, I believe in accountability. I am normally very opposed to taking powers away from politicians and giving them to unelected bodies because it undermines democracy but in this case it is the politicians who have undermined democracy as they have not fulfilled their duties, legally or practically. It is time for us when we come to write our report to be very forceful about what we want. Not forceful in words by saying this and that should happen, but we must propose firm action that will make things happen and ensure things happen. Whether that is the Housing Agency, An Bord Pleanála or whatever mechanism one might look at, it has to happen and happen immediately.

The issue of anti-social behaviour has been brought up. I am fed up telling people that anti-social behaviour in many places has nothing to do with Travellers. Anti-social behaviour occurs in society. What we know also, and what everybody who has an sociological understanding knows, is the more people have a stake in society and the better people are treated then the more likely they are to conform to the norms of society. That is a well known catch-22 that has been well articulated by Mícheál Mac Gréil in the latest version of his books on prejudice, which had a chapter dedicated to the Traveller community. Chapter 13 of the book is entitled, The Travelling People - Ireland's Apartheid. He was bang on the button. The answer to that problem also, funnily enough, is that the settled society must start acting and fulfilling its obligation so that as everybody truly feels equal then everybody will truly feel they have a stake in society. We know that is a reality right across the world.

I hate it when somebody says we must depoliticise this issue. We actually must politicise this issue because if we depoliticise things then what generally happens is that people slap each other on the back and congratulate themselves for being great people and that there is no racism in Irish society. My worry is that we are becoming much more openly intolerant than we were not only in terms of Travellers but other minorities. I worry that it has become acceptable in places for people to stand up and be quite intolerant about things.

This should become a political issue and particularly at election time. If all the Travellers voted in Galway, where people would support their rights, many people would be queuing to change their mind because there is a sizeable vote in it. One might think that a block of 500 or 1,000 votes is small but anybody who has ever fought a proportional representation or PR election knows that it is awfully easy to be hanging in there on the last day not waiting for a 1,000 votes but waiting for 500, 300, 200 or 20 votes. It is time that the Traveller community became much more politicised and judged us all on our actions not on promises made before elections.

I have a little saying in Galway, in that if somebody presented a petition at an election time looking for a bridge to be built from Connemara to America, even though that will never happen, people would sign up for it. What I am saying is that people must be measured by their actual actions on this issue. I look forward to us sitting down over the next month and a bit to put together a strong but forceful programme of work that will have things that will be unpalatable for some politicians. That will be a political issue as it should be. Then we should push our case that the Oireachtas would enact strong legislation and make something happen to deal with the absolutely disgraceful accommodation that we have all over the place.

As I said earlier at another meeting, non-compliance with the law frightens me as well as how local authorities and other agencies connive in not following the law. There seems to be no comeback. A law where there is no penalty is not a law. A law that says a local authority should do something yet there is no comeback when it does not is not a law but a wish. The idea of a law is that there is something one must do and provide but if one does not do so, then there is a penalty. We pass too many laws in this place that wish a lot of things but do not seem to have any penalty at the end of the day if the people who are obliged to do something do not do it. We need teeth in this.

I do not need much detail because I know there are other speakers, including Deputy Collins, who want to get in. Perhaps the witnesses can answer the Deputy's and my questions together, if the Chair agrees, to maximise the time.