Mr. Mick Clifford:

I want to pick up on the point Mr. Devitt has made about unions. In my experience of dealing with some of these issues, if there is a scenario in which one member of a trade union makes a protected disclosure and the person who may be an aggressor or who has transgressed is also a member of the union, what I have observed is the union is more inclined to side with the person who is the subject of the disclosure rather than the person making the disclosure.

On the point regarding the public sector, there definitely seems to be a scenario whereby in the private sector if a disclosure is made the relationship with the shareholders of that entity is such that they want the issue resolved, on the basis it will make the company or entity in the private sector function better and it is regarded in this way. This is largely the case but not exclusively. In the public sector there is an issue whereby senior management, in particular if it is a serious issue, perceive it as being a personal attack on them and they respond on this basis and, as the Chair pointed out, they do so with the full resources of the State behind them. It is certainly the case that it is very difficult to see how the public interest is being served in this scenario and it is definitely an area that, hopefully, could be addressed in some way through legislation.