Ms Adeline O'Brien:

I thank Deputy Ó Cuív. With regard to digital inclusion, we see the need for both. I do not believe that anybody would argue that the art of human engagement and supporting the most vulnerable people could be entirely replaced with online services. In fact, many of the supports we provided through a digital inclusion programme during the pandemic involved supporting people to access services online while in a face-to-face setting. There is no sense that everything needs to be moved completely online. There will always be face-to-face interaction. Many of our services are delivered in that way. It is about making sure those people who are accessing our services and who are engaged in their communities can also do so online. There is no doubt that 80% of engagement with services will move online. It is about giving everyone the opportunity to do both rather than about replacing our face-to-face services with digital engagement.

The Deputy is quite right with regard to the Tús programme. Obviously referrals will need to open up. We have already spoken about some of our recommendations for reform of the scheme. With regard to people not competing in the general labour market, as the Deputy has rightly pointed out, there are many reasons for that. Some of these relate to language issues or intergenerational unemployment. We are also seeing intergenerational ill health in disadvantaged communities. People with convictions or caring duties also face difficulties. While the Tús programme provides really valuable and critical work experience for the individual, we also see it as providing community services. It provides positive social contact for people, allowing them to connect with their own communities. Not everybody has a natural infrastructure of support and care around them. We would often say that somebody might get a start in one of these places. If you are new to a community or if you have been marginalised for any reason, the Tús programme opens up possibilities for engagement and integration in the local community. It also provides routine and a meaningful social role in the community. We see it as having enormous benefits beyond the work experience itself. Deputy Ó Cuív is absolutely right.