Dr. Deirdre Garvey:

I thank the Senator and Deputy Carey for the very positive feedback on what we have all seen in society, namely the great work of community organisations such as Community Gardens Ireland, and on the Community Call initiative. The initiative is ongoing. It is a very welcome development. Keeping that going is something I would ask for.

The employment figure, 160,000, is huge. People are usually taken aback when they hear it. It is important to address this matter because it can be a sensitive one among those who wish to understand it. There are actually four times as many human beings involved in the delivery of the work and the benefit for people in communities in Ireland and internationally so I would not want this want to become a conversation that is only about employees and jobs in the labour market, although our sector is an important part of the labour market and economy. The people resource that the community and voluntary sector brings to activating people in their communities is also really important. It takes money, resources and time to recruit, hire, support and monitor volunteers. The representatives present will attest to the number of hours voluntary organisations give of their week or month. It is important to note that nothing is cost free. Just because there is not necessarily a salary involved does not mean there is no cost. This is evident if we look at the matter in the round. What we need to do is understand that the jobs are in fewer than 50% of the charities because the vast majority of charities, or upwards of 60%, have no staff whatsoever. They are run by volunteers on the board and deliver the services through volunteers. That should be put in perspective.

We have gone through the terms and conditions of some of the employees. I refer to those involved in public service delivery but also those involved in community organisations whose services would not necessarily fall into the category of essential public services. On the question of where those jobs are going, my colleague, Mr. Cooper, spoke about the impact of the Covid pandemic. There is very much a cause and effect relationship between funding going into an organisation and the number of staff it might need to deliver on its mission. There are many reasons organisations hire staff. Highly trained people may be needed to deliver a professional service. There are really three issues, the first of which concerns the proportion of people who are paid versus the people who are unpaid. Whenever we talk about people and the voluntary sector, we talk about all the people. I guess different interventions can be made. With regard to those who are staff or have jobs, the impacts of the cuts in funding, the drop in fundraising and the increases in some statutory places in respect of funding will correlate directly with the ability to retain staff and jobs. People leading community and voluntary organisations right now state attracting and retaining staff is the number one issue in terms of the impact on funding. They are losing staff to the private and public sectors because they cannot keep the same terms and conditions. That relates directly to money, as my colleague Mr. Cooper has said. Keeping staff within the voluntary sector is a really big issue. That presents a mixed picture in terms of the impact of Covid.

The third point I want to make on the bigger cohort of people, paid and unpaid, is the need to invest in skills-building so the individuals are not disadvantaged not only in their terms and conditions, because they work in community organisations, but also in terms of their ability to continuously professionally develop their skills so they will be attractive to all employers, regardless of the sector. Recent research that we published late last year, which we commissioned Indecon to carry out, indicates that the employees of community organisations and charities are significantly disadvantaged in terms of their access to skills-building initiatives. As a cohort, the 160,000 people, who are part of the labour market and labour force, are falling behind regarding the variety of and investment in skills that we all know workforces across all developed societies will have to have if they are to be fit for purpose to meet the challenges facing us. That is a rounded review of the jobs and the bigger context.

The Senator asked for a figure on compliance. We can revert to him with that. The Wheel, of which I am CEO, has 22 staff. I have one senior and one middle-level employee on the payroll to mind our compliance. That represents 5% or 6% of our costs.

Some people will call that overhead; I call it an investment in a quality service that is monitored and publicly accountable. We need to knock the myth of overhead and administrative costs on the head and help people to understand what running organisations in a right way looks like. I think we have already dealt with the insurance costs but I look to my colleague, Mr. Cooper, in case he has anything to add on rising insurance costs.