Mr. Mark O'Connor:

The Deputy has asked a very interesting question that we have pondered extensively in Inclusion Ireland. Many parents I meet will say it can be heartbreaking for them to send their children who do not have a disability to the school around the corner when their other child is going way off to somewhere else to a unit or whatever the case may be. Those parents are in the here and now.

Last week at one of the conferences I believe the chief executive of the National Council for Special Education acknowledged that we are not yet ready for inclusive education in Ireland. It is a journey that will take ten or 15 years to evolve from what we have now to something parents can agree is an option for their child. People simply cannot envisage that at the moment. It is certainly a fundamental right for children to be able to go to their local school. However, as the Deputy said, we need to have those tailor-made supports within the school.

There is talk about various models, including the New Brunswick model the Deputy mentioned. Boiling it down to what we are discussing today - bullying, exclusion and that kind of stuff, as a society we should really be looking at what supports we need to put into schools. Not all of it is down to supports in schools.

As I mentioned earlier, the biggest thing the Government could do would be to have a campaign on removing the stigma that exists in disability. The NDA's research indicates not just in school but in workplaces and elsewhere, people are expressing discomfort around disabled persons and all of that. Targeting the resources is the first thing that could be done.

It is well acknowledged that teachers do not get robust initial teacher training on inclusive education. That applies across the board, including in respect of LGBTI, people from other countries who have come here, the new Irish, people with different religions etc. We know the continuing professional development, CPD, in the area is less than robust. Those matters need to be worked on. At the moment 109,000 people are in a class of more than 30 pupils. To get to a truly inclusive education system we need class sizes of a maximum of 20. Without those foundation stones, we do not have a hope.